At what point do you stop supporting an artist?

[mattinmass]

Given RA's recent (and longtime recurring) antics, I figured I would post a more general question about artists and their sometimes eccentric/bizarre behavior.

Does an audience have a right to a certain level of performance when we buy a ticket to a show/event? Where do you draw the line as a fan?

At what point would you stop supporting an artist b/c of the way he/she acts and/or treats their audience?

Opinions from Australia are encouraged

[Rob]

I guess you stop when you don't get enjoyment out of the show. Last night, I enjoyed the songs, but the overall performance was not enjoyable for me. It's hard to quit an artist that you enjoy listening to.

[mattinmass]

will you stop listening to his music, or simply stop attending shows?

[Rob]

I'd probably just skip him if he comes back to town.

[mattinmass]

that's too bad.

[ewok.online]

i'll always put up with the bullshit.

[Blindtiger]

I think one has to be fairly eccentric and bizarre to be a celebrity. For some reason no one seems to show much interest in buying tickets or going out of their way to follow the career of normal/sane folks. Maybe you have to be eccentric and bizarre to be an artist worthy of fans? Although as an artist whose income is dependent on the fans, I would expect the artist to bring their A-game each night. In Ryan's case, I wonder if he's so over-scheduled that it makes him less likely to deliver consistent quality shows?

[Faded Rose]

I think one has to be fairly eccentric and bizarre to be a celebrity. For some reason no one seems to show much interest in buying tickets or going out of their way to follow the career of normal/sane folks. Maybe you have to be eccentric and bizarre to be an artist worthy of fans? Although as an artist whose income is dependent on the fans, I would expect the artist to bring their A-game each night. In Ryan's case, I wonder if he's so over-scheduled that it makes him less likely to deliver consistent quality shows?

This is just so accurate.

That said it wouldn't stop me going to a Ryan concert. I have tickets for November and I shall hope for a good one. If it's not then put it down to experience, remember the good times and go to the next one. I would only stop supporting him or anyone else I liked if for some reason I no longer liked their music (the old stuff or the new stuff). Bad behaviour is annoying but it's no reason to withdraw support.

[FrigidRoses]

This is just so accurate.

That said it wouldn't stop me going to a Ryan concert. I have tickets for November and I shall hope for a good one. If it's not then put it down to experience, remember the good times and go to the next one. I would only stop supporting him or anyone else I liked if for some reason I no longer liked their music (the old stuff or the new stuff). Bad behaviour is annoying but it's no reason to withdraw support.

Agreed. It's not as if you don't have an idea that Ryan's show are a little bit crazy. As long as he continues to make amazing music, I'll continue catch his shows. Most of the ones I've caught have been fantastic anyway. :upyours

[burgerqueen]

I can't imagine that a fan would actually consider not supporting him as an artist because you're unhappy with a show. If you don't like his live performances, don't go. But why would you have to give up the music altogether?

[Faded Rose]

Not long ago everyone was complaining that his shows had been samey and boring - am I not right? Now he turns on the drama and folks still aren't satisfied. Of course everyone wants to see a 3 hour fantastic show but we also all know that's not how it works.

[mattinmass]

i love the apologists that come out so quickly to defend

if i'm paying 50 bucks for a show, i expect a complete effort. that's the least you can ask for.

i probably won't go to anymore RA shows - he's a studio musician IMO

[ewok.online]

Agreed. It's not as if you don't have an idea that Ryan's show are a little bit crazy. As long as he continues to make amazing music, I'll continue catch his shows. Most of the ones I've caught have been fantastic anyway. :upyours

agreed, also.


his track record is greatly more good than bad, but people choose to dwell on the shitty nights.
if there were as many shitty nights as people make it out to be, dude would have had to go back to being a plumber a long time ago.

and yeah, he can be a prissy little bitch, but not every performer can be as nice as Dave Grohl all the time. (side note: i don't think he ever has a bad day.)

so this whole "when is it too much" thing is superfluous.

maybe i identify with his being nuts because i can be nuts in a lot of the same ways. (it's how i found out about him in the first place. i had a bad show and told the people there to shut the fuck up and someone told me i "pulled a ryan adams")

but i will always be a RA apologist.
call me a sychophant, a moron, a hero-worshipper, whatever.
RA is the man, and whatever he wants to do is probably alright by me.

[FrigidRoses]

I can't imagine that a fan would actually consider not supporting him as an artist because you're unhappy with a show. If you don't like his live performances, don't go. But why would you have to give up the music altogether?

Yah I don't get that either. There are always people who love a show and people who feel disappointed. If you don't like him live, then don't go. Again Ryan has had this reputation since Whiskeytown. It's nothing new.

[FrigidRoses]

I'd probably just skip him if he comes back to town.

You're gonna gonna shut down TBY out of spite are you? :o

[Faded Rose]

i love the apologists that come out so quickly to defend

if i'm paying 50 bucks for a show, i expect a complete effort. that's the least you can ask for.

i probably won't go to anymore RA shows - he's a studio musician IMO

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

I put my hand up to being an apologist and I'm not sorry.

[burgerqueen]

i love the apologists that come out so quickly to defend



Yeah I know it's shocking that people on a Ryan Adams message board like him & are defeding him. Crazy.

[ewok.online]

Yeah I know it's shocking that people on a Ryan Adams message board like him & are defeding him. Crazy.

:upyours

[raisemyglass]

I'll support him as long as the music is still good, and take my chances at shows whenever he comes to mpls (about 1 time a year).

I've seen him 7 times and only one show was bad, and that was one of the most memorable RA breakdowns of all time (12/14/03 - the Westerberg meltdown).

[ewok.online]

I've seen him 7 times and only one show was bad, and that was one of the most memorable RA breakdowns of all time (12/14/03 - the Westerberg meltdown).

the First Ave. show?
i would kill a man to have been there.

[Rob]

You're gonna gonna shut down TBY out of spite are you? :o
Nah, the board is here to stay.

Both the admin and mod (Sydneyfan) have been the two biggest complainers after their respective shows. Quite odd :lol

[ewok.online]

Nah, the board is here to stay.

Both the admin and mod (Sydneyfan) have been the two biggest complainers after their respective shows. Quite odd :lol

that's cause you guys are there to keep it real. :D:upyours

[Sydneyfan]

I think one has to be fairly eccentric and bizarre to be a celebrity. For some reason no one seems to show much interest in buying tickets or going out of their way to follow the career of normal/sane folks. Maybe you have to be eccentric and bizarre to be an artist worthy of fans?

Sorry, but I don't agree with that at all. Sure, plenty of artists are flakey, but that probably has more to do with being allowed to get away with infantile behaviour by the adoring masses rather than any real personality trait. And there are many exceptional artists who are both professional and consistant in their approach to their live shows and their fan base.

As for the question at hand...I'm certainly not a supporter of the "I'm happy to take whatever Ryan gives me" school of thought. A live show might be a musical experience, but it's also a commercial transaction.

I will continue to buy his albums (as long as they are better than Easy Tiger) but I won't be in any hurry to buy a $70 ticket in the RA concert lottery anytime soon.

[ferris wheel junkie]

:wtf

[FrigidRoses]

Nah, the board is here to stay.

Both the admin and mod (Sydneyfan) have been the two biggest complainers after their respective shows. Quite odd :lol

:upyours

I respect your opinion of the show, but complaining is kind of Sydneys thing. :D

[Sydneyfan]

:upyours

I respect your opinion of the show, but complaining is kind of Sydneys thing. :D

It's the only thing I'm good at. :(

[Rob]

Sorry, but I don't agree with that at all. Sure, plenty of artists are flakey, but that probably has more to do with being allowed to get away with infantile behaviour by the adoring masses rather than any real personality trait. And there are many exceptional artists who are both professional and consistant in their approach to their live shows and their fan base.

As for the question at hand...I'm certainly not a supporter of the "I'm happy to take whatever Ryan gives me" school of thought. A live show might be a musical experience, but it's also a commercial transaction.

I will continue to buy his albums (as long as they are better than Easy Tiger) but I won't be in any hurry to buy a $70 ticket in the RA concert lottery anytime soon.
agreed on every point

[ewok.online]

are you complaining about complaining now? ;)

[Sydneyfan]

are you complaining about complaining now? ;)

Yes. :lol

[FrigidRoses]

It's the only thing I'm good at. :(

:hug

[ewok.online]

:violin
i feel your pain.

[Faded Rose]

:boohoo

This thread is making me so sad. I really do appreciate everyone is entitled to their view but it makes very sad reading. More so for me because I fall into the "go and see him whatever" category. That doesn't mean I don't think he needs to get some sort of grip on the realities of life in general and his own in particular.

[Rob]

People have different levels of tolerance, Rose, your's is just higher than mine...not a bad thing.

[hildegoat]

I'm kinda half and half on this one. I know the artist's C's talking about (Josh Ritter is an excellent example).

I told my girlfriend last night to expect the worst on Thursday night just because she won't be too disappointed if it ends up being a bust show. I might think twice putting down $70 for a ticket when I'm not sure what I'm gonna get but I'll take the risk at a $35 ticket.

[FrigidRoses]

TBY supports dissent. :rock

[Faded Rose]

TBY supports dissent. :rock

Free speech yes - dissent no.

[Sydneyfan]

:boohoo

This thread is making me so sad. I really do appreciate everyone is entitled to their view but it makes very sad reading. More so for me because I fall into the "go and see him whatever" category. That doesn't mean I don't think he needs to get some sort of grip on the realities of life in general and his own in particular.

Don't be sad Rose. :) Those who love his live shows will continue to go and have a fabulous time. So it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks.

[Faded Rose]

People have different levels of tolerance, Rose, your's is just higher than mine...not a bad thing.

:lol

[ewok.online]

aww, happy endings are special.

i'm just a blithering fanboy and i'm okay with it.
i don't hate on anyone for their views, either.

if there is any artist who can spark such diverse reactions among people who are their fans, it's Ryan.

[FrigidRoses]

I'm kinda half and half on this one. I know the artist's C's talking about (Josh Ritter is an excellent example).

I told my girlfriend last night to expect the worst on Thursday night just because she won't be too disappointed if it ends up being a bust show. I might think twice putting down $70 for a ticket when I'm not sure what I'm gonna get but I'll take the risk at a $35 ticket.

Couldn't have said it better. Having the mind set that you might not get your moneys worth at his concerts is not a good thing. But I do think the bad overshadows the good.

[hildegoat]

But I do think the bad overshadows the good.

Oh absolutely. Even at the worst RA shows I've heard about there still appear to be great musical moments. I'm sure I'll just be in awe tomorrow.

[ewok.online]

I'm sure I'll just be in awe tomorrow.

that makes two of us. :upyours

[ferris wheel junkie]

Given RA's recent (and longtime recurring) antics, I figured I would post a more general question about artists and their sometimes eccentric/bizarre behavior.

Does an audience have a right to a certain level of performance when we buy a ticket to a show/event? Where do you draw the line as a fan?

At what point would you stop supporting an artist b/c of the way he/she acts and/or treats their audience?

Opinions from Australia are encouraged

ok, well, in response to the question about artists in general, (and with relation to ryan adams) i would have to say that i don't think there ever would be a specific point at which i suddenly would boycott an artist's shows or albums, or just suddenly stop "supporting" them. unless for some reason it was personal, which is unlikely since most bands/artists i see are not my friends.

i wouldn't use the word "support" in the first place, i don't think of artists or bands as a cause to "support" like they're a cancer research charity or a dependant spouse. i'm not a fan because i want to advertise them or make them money or anything. i buy albums and go to shows for me, not for the artist (unless they were my friends or family. in that case i would support them.)

i'm buying albums and going to shows because i like to, and not for the artist or for anyone else. i wouldn't buy an artists album or go to a show if i didn't think i'd like it. including ryan adams

i tend to like ryan adams shows and albums, so it's likely that i'd buy more and see more. i'm not going to suddenly reject the albums that i have loved for years already or change my mind about the shows that i've already had fun at because i see a bad show or i didn't like the new album. it's even less likely that i'll reject all that music that i love because of reading about other people seeing shows that they didn't like. that might make me re-think going to a show on that tour, but i'm not about to all-out renounce my fandom and enjoyment and appreciation of the music for someone else's bad experience with it.

[burgerqueen]

I told my girlfriend last night to expect the worst on Thursday night just because she won't be too disappointed if it ends up being a bust show. I might think twice putting down $70 for a ticket when I'm not sure what I'm gonna get but I'll take the risk at a $35 ticket.

Good point. Considering how crazy ticket prices are now, I really don't think $35 is all that bad of a price. (Then again I've also shelled out $350 to see Madonna before. :eek: ) Get tickets make a night of it, go to dinner, drinks etc... If the show ends up being bad, oh well it wasn't too expensive & you still had a good night out otherwise. Now, if he raised the prices to something obscene & pulled this, then I'd be angry. I don't know, I guess since his attitude/live behavior etc... has been so well documented for so long that on the nights he has an off night it doesn't surprise me so much.

[hildegoat]

GGet tickets make a night of it, go to dinner, drinks etc... If the show ends up being bad, oh well it wasn't too expensive & you still had a good night out otherwise.

That's our theory. We're spending a long weekend in Minneapolis, so the show is only a part of it. If it's a dud show, I'm only out $35 and I'll still have a fun time overall.

[Starlite]

I'm a fan for better or for worse. Considering RA only tours here once every two years, I'm happy to take whatever I can get.
I experienced three very different shows in August and had a fantastic time at all of them. Hard to comprehend, but I think that rift-causing first night in Sydney was actually my favourite of the three.

if there is any artist who can spark such diverse reactions among people who are their fans, it's Ryan.
Ha, tell me about it. Drum Media (a local street mag) was still receiving and printing letters about that Sydney show three or four weeks after the show. The last one was along the lines of "I'm very grateful to Ryan Adams for the tour. It has made the letters page so interesting to read." :lol

[MarleyJayne]

Wow, this is a pretty amazing discussion for a person new to this board and a sort-of new RA fan. I got to see him for the first time last night, in Milwaukee, and I was (for a lack of a better word) enthralled. (?) When I pay for a ticket to see a show, I am paying for an experience. I do not EXPECT to hear any particular song, EXPECT a certain length of show, and I definitely don't EXPECT the artist to behave a certain way. I think that it would be difficult to separate the man from his music because it means a great deal to him. It is his art. His means of expression. It would be unfortunate if we asked RA to NOT express himself, these so-called "antics" add too much to the experience. So many artists stand up there, horse-faced, belting out lyrics and just doin' a job. Is that what we want RA to do? I know that is not what I call a good show. But, I will tell you what I do EXPECT when I go to a show... The people around me are respectful to the artist. They are respectful to the band. They are respectful to the venue. And respectful to their fellow fans. Quit yelling out soungs, you know they have a list. Quit yapping over the music. And all that other nonsense... some last night screamed "Take your shirt off!". I wonder how they would feel in the same position. Are we entitled to tell someone how to behave because we paid a certain price and we EXPECT it?

[Sydneyfan]

When I pay for a ticket to see a show, I am paying for an experience. I do not EXPECT to hear any particular song, EXPECT a certain length of show, and I definitely don't EXPECT the artist to behave a certain way. I think that it would be difficult to separate the man from his music because it means a great deal to him. It is his art. His means of expression.


Out of curiousity, how far does that acceptance of whatever he chooses to present to the audience extend? In other words, what would be your criteria for judging an RA show as disappointing?

I'm glad you enjoyed the show, and I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm really just interested. :)

[Library bathroom rockstar]

Given RA's recent (and longtime recurring) antics, I figured I would post a more general question about artists and their sometimes eccentric/bizarre behavior.

Does an audience have a right to a certain level of performance when we buy a ticket to a show/event? Where do you draw the line as a fan?

At what point would you stop supporting an artist b/c of the way he/she acts and/or treats their audience?

Opinions from Australia are encouraged

I think its hard to give up on someone who wont ever give up.:]

[Library bathroom rockstar]

Given RA's recent (and longtime recurring) antics, I figured I would post a more general question about artists and their sometimes eccentric/bizarre behavior.

Does an audience have a right to a certain level of performance when we buy a ticket to a show/event? Where do you draw the line as a fan?

At what point would you stop supporting an artist b/c of the way he/she acts and/or treats their audience?

Opinions from Australia are encouraged

You all ask way too many questions and you dont think for yourself make your own decisions not someone elses opinion.
Or are you just polling?

I know we love him and I am blessed to have seen him in the past
The only thing I would complain about is where are the new songs?
I hope to see a show in the future of new music old is good too
Great.
Ok bye.

[mattinmass]

just food for thought

[mattinmass]

Sorry, but I don't agree with that at all. Sure, plenty of artists are flakey, but that probably has more to do with being allowed to get away with infantile behaviour by the adoring masses rather than any real personality trait. And there are many exceptional artists who are both professional and consistant in their approach to their live shows and their fan base.

As for the question at hand...I'm certainly not a supporter of the "I'm happy to take whatever Ryan gives me" school of thought. A live show might be a musical experience, but it's also a commercial transaction.

I will continue to buy his albums (as long as they are better than Easy Tiger) but I won't be in any hurry to buy a $70 ticket in the RA concert lottery anytime soon.

:clap i agree

[Kirsten]

Back to the original question, being a broader one about artists in general and not just Ryan...

I did give up on a musician after a particularly horrible concert experience. We saw Stone Temple Pilots several years ago (like, 7 or 8?) and Scott Wieland had a mid-song blow-out over beer being throw on the stage. This in itself is fairly typical Rock Star behavior, but what freaked me out was... well, understand he was playing in front of a very drunk, very male crowd who had just been "warmed up" by that charming group Disturbed... he actually asked the crowd for the scalp of the person that threw the beer. Given the general vibe of the crowd, I thought it was quite likely there would be bloodshed, so we left immediately. I was shaking I was so scared. I thought it was totally irresponsible to incite violence in a crowd in that way. It was really upsetting and disappointing and I went home and chucked all my STP albums. I was younger then and I probably would be less fazed by such an occurence now, but I still think Scott Wieland is a total prick but now I don't change the station when an STP song comes on.

But, honestly, I can't imagine ever giving up on Ryan, though there may come a day when I choose not to "buy a $70 ticket in the RA concert lottery." But you know what they say... You can't win if you don't play!!!! :D

[Library bathroom rockstar]

Back to the original question, being a broader one about artists in general and not just Ryan...

I did give up on a musician after a particularly horrible concert experience. We saw Stone Temple Pilots several years ago (like, 7 or 8?) and Scott Wieland had a mid-song blow-out over beer being throw on the stage. This in itself is fairly typical Rock Star behavior, but what freaked me out was... well, understand he was playing in front of a very drunk, very male crowd who had just been "warmed up" by that charming group Disturbed... he actually asked the crowd for the scalp of the person that threw the beer. Given the general vibe of the crowd, I thought it was quite likely there would be bloodshed, so we left immediately. I was shaking I was so scared. I thought it was totally irresponsible to incite violence in a crowd in that way. It was really upsetting and disappointing and I went home and chucked all my STP albums. I was younger then and I probably would be less fazed by such an occurence now, but I still think Scott Wieland is a total prick but now I don't change the station when an STP song comes on.

But, honestly, I can't imagine ever giving up on Ryan, though there may come a day when I choose not to "buy a $70 ticket in the RA concert lottery." But you know what they say... You can't win if you don't play!!!! :D


We all grow:]
Sorry you were scared.

[MarleyJayne]

Out of curiousity, how far does that acceptance of whatever he chooses to present to the audience extend? In other words, what would be your criteria for judging an RA show as disappointing?

I'm glad you enjoyed the show, and I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm really just interested. :)

I really don't have a criteria. The point is that you may be taking a certain risk when you buy a ticket to anyone's "show". I personally made a choice to see Ryan Adams because of the wonderful people who use archive.org provide me with an idea of what it might be like to attend a Ryan Adam's show. If Ryan had acted out of character last night, I may or may not have been disappointed. But I knew what to expect because I can't imagine him doing something I would find so unacceptable it would cause me to never attend another show. So, maybe my standards are low. Maybe some of yours are too high. Just remember that anyone can have a bad day.

[Sydneyfan]

I really don't have a criteria. The point is that you may be taking a certain risk when you buy a ticket to anyone's "show". I personally made a choice to see Ryan Adams because of the wonderful people who use archive.org provide me with an idea of what it might be like to attend a Ryan Adam's show. If Ryan had acted out of character last night, I may or may not have been disappointed. But I knew what to expect because I can't imagine him doing something I would find so unacceptable it would cause me to never attend another show. So, maybe my standards are low. Maybe some of yours are too high. Just remember that anyone can have a bad day.

Cheers for the reply. :upyours

[raer7385]

I would never stop supporting Ryan even if he spit on me. the songs are just too good for me. does that make me a masochist? other artist now that's a different story.

[Rob]

I would never stop supporting Ryan even if he spit on me. the songs are just too good for me. does that make me a masochist? other artist now that's a different story.
I'm not sure what to say.

[raer7385]

rob, you got it pretty bad and you still stuck around

[Rob]

rob, you got it pretty bad and you still stuck around
I don't blame him for what happened to me.

[raer7385]

I don't blame him for what happened to me.

oh ok, still just saying.....

[Rob]

If I were ever to allow someone to spit on me, please take my life from me.

[raer7385]

:lol :lol :lol

[KrzyIrish69]

i think anyone on this site, will put up with any antics from any artist considering what ryan's put people through.

but then again, he's always been consistent with material.

[MarleyJayne]

so far, in my life, there has only been one band that I have quit going to see live... That would be the Dave Matthews Band. I had some of my best times at their earlier shows... and then came the frat-boy, beer bong crowd. I guess it just got to be a hassle. and I think a little overexposure on the part of the band. not a good vibe.

So, I have seen many shows, and many artists multiple times... and I just go for the pure experience of it... no preconceived notions whenever possible. And I am not sure that I am even on topic with my psycho-babble. lol. g'night.

[watty23]

If you love an artist that much you should never stop supporting them. I sat through Neil Young's Greendale performance just to catch the awesome Crazy Horse encore and bought most of his studio albums inc. the so called sub par 80's albums.

Regarding Ryan I see a lot of similarities with Neil and the way he's going about his career. I'll never stop supporting Neil or Ryan.

[watty23]

so far, in my life, there has only been one band that I have quit going to see live... That would be the Dave Matthews Band. I had some of my best times at their earlier shows... and then came the frat-boy, beer bong crowd. I guess it just got to be a hassle. and I think a little overexposure on the part of the band. not a good vibe.

So, I have seen many shows, and many artists multiple times... and I just go for the pure experience of it... no preconceived notions whenever possible. And I am not sure that I am even on topic with my psycho-babble. lol. g'night.

Thats happened to me with a few bands here in Australia such as Wolfmother and JOhn Butler Trio.

[rking]

Ryan really has to slow down this "FALL TOUR" schedule , I mean new dates are always being added on the fly, why not cement a tour prevous to that tour, like everyone else does. Schedule a two month tour with days off in between, so RY RY can get his rest and the band could get away from him for the day. Ryan is my favorite songwriter etc., but this tour since say the spring tour has been leaving bad tastes in his FANS mouths, not casual fans, his REAL fans, fans that buy up everything he does puts out, and sells, wheter its music or merch. This whole charade of being like the DEAD in 80/81 was a pipe dream for him. If he doenst play with Phil LEsh while he is at the NOKIA in NYC, I MAY be done
PEACE

[FrigidRoses]

Ryan really has to slow down this "FALL TOUR" schedule , I mean new dates are always being added on the fly, why not cement a tour prevous to that tour, like everyone else does. Schedule a two month tour with days off in between, so RY RY can get his rest and the band could get away from him for the day. Ryan is my favorite songwriter etc., but this tour since say the spring tour has been leaving bad tastes in his FANS mouths, not casual fans, his REAL fans, fans that buy up everything he does puts out, and sells, wheter its music or merch. This whole charade of being like the DEAD in 80/81 was a pipe dream for him. If he doenst play with Phil LEsh while he is at the NOKIA in NYC, I will be done with seeing him live or supporting him, i will burn his stuff and bootleg his merch.
PEACE

:woohoo