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Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough


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Old 04-26-2019, 10:35 AM   #2651
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

also, it's been said by me and numerous others...whether she looked 20 or not (according to ryan) she shared music videos of her time stamped and most of them were tagged or caption w/ the words 15 year old bassist in there...so, he saw that....

from the article:
Days later, Adams expressed anxiety: “If people knew they would say I was like R Kelley lol,” he wrote.

Yet within 10 minutes, the conversation again turned explicit. “I just want you to touch your nipple,” he texted, before again asking about her age. “And tell me that your mom is not gonna kill me if she finds out we even text.”

In response to Adams’s repeated pleas that she tell him she was 18 — “You have to convince me,” he wrote — Ava at times said she was. Sometimes he asked to see identification — “in the hottest way that has ever been done Lol.” She never showed him any ID.
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Old 04-26-2019, 11:08 AM   #2652
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by loveisreal View Post
Just to correct you: She was 16 when the sexting started which was not clear in the original article but was told in the podcast interview with the writers later on. The first contact between them happened when she was 14 but there was no sexting involved.
For sure that does not change the severity but it's a good example how misleading the article was written (you can read everywhere sexting with a 14yr old which is just not true). And i think the "pornstar stangle thing" was just metaphoric for people judging with double standards (16yr old innocent girl vs 18yr old nasty pornstar no one cares about)

Isn’t that the definition of “grooming” though? Gaining her trust first and then turning it sexual in nature? That doesn’t make it sound any better IMO.
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Old 04-26-2019, 11:12 AM   #2653
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knotnow View Post
Isn’t that the definition of “grooming” though? Gaining her trust first and then turning it sexual in nature? That doesn’t make it sound any better IMO.
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Old 04-26-2019, 11:19 AM   #2654
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knotnow View Post
Isn’t that the definition of “grooming” though? Gaining her trust first and then turning it sexual in nature? That doesn’t make it sound any better IMO.
I didn't say that it sounded any better. The 14 yr old thing was just incorrect.


Quote:
from the article:

The Times has reviewed extensive communication between the two, including 3,217 text messages they exchanged over a nine-month period when Ava was 15 and 16. (The Times is identifying Ava, now 20, by her middle name because she was a minor during their online relationship. They never met in person.)
Quote:
As well from the article:
When Adams began corresponding online with a fan, Ava, in 2013, she was a 14-year-old bass player already forging a career.
Here you can see that they didn't tell when the sexting actually started but later in that interview they told that she was 16. But now you can read everywhere that he sexted a 14yr old.. there was this recent occurrence in this thread and numerous other occurrences in this thread and newspapers etc... i just wanted to correct it.
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Old 04-26-2019, 11:37 AM   #2655
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by loveisreal View Post
I didn't say that it sounded any better. The 14 yr old thing was just incorrect.
Here you can see that they didn't tell when the sexting actually started but later in that interview they told that she was 16. But now you can read everywhere that he sexted a 14yr old.. there was this recent occurrence in this thread and numerous other occurrences in this thread and newspapers etc... i just wanted to correct it.
You're not correcting it, because we don't know when things turned sexual. The article only states that the authors reviewed texts from when she was 15 and 16, not that that's when it started. We don't know what they were texting about when she was 14. We have no timeline.
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Old 04-26-2019, 11:58 AM   #2656
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by folkjam View Post
You're not correcting it, because we don't know when things turned sexual. The article only states that the authors reviewed texts from when she was 15 and 16, not that that's when it started. We don't know what they were texting about when she was 14. We have no timeline.
you and i are on the same page.

but we actually do have a timeline. they have the texts and screenshots from "when things turned explicit" and that was a 9 mth period during her years of 15-16


if ry ry could just own up and apologize i mean....it'd do a lot for us non super fans to move past it.
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Old 04-26-2019, 12:09 PM   #2657
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebalvenie View Post
but we actually do have a timeline. they have the texts and screenshots from "when things turned explicit" and that was a 9 mth period during her years of 15-16
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/18/a...yan-adams.html

Listen from 18:50 on...
The height of the sexual conversation was when she was 16 and this was the period where all the quotes came from. And i was wrong they didn't clearly state when it exactly turned sexual.. sorry for that remembered it wrong..
still 14 is definitely wrong.

Quote:
You're not correcting it, because we don't know when things turned sexual. The article only states that the authors reviewed texts from when she was 15 and 16, not that that's when it started. We don't know what they were texting about when she was 14. We have no timeline.
That doesn't matter at all.. we don't know if you sexted a 14 year old as well.. we need to stick to the stuff we know and not guess stuff we don't otherwise Elvis is truly still alive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thebalvenie View Post
if ry ry could just own up and apologize i mean....it'd do a lot for us non super fans to move past it.
Maybe hew would if he could. I think as long as the FBI case is open his lawyers won't allow him to say anything.
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Old 04-26-2019, 12:11 PM   #2658
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

So I've analyzed the hell of this article more times than I can count, and they purposely avoid putting dates on things.

We have:

Quote:
But their correspondence about music turned into graphic texting. Eventually, Ava said, they conducted video calls on Skype, where Adams exposed himself during phone sex.

The Times has reviewed extensive communication between the two, including 3,217 text messages they exchanged over a nine-month period when Ava was 15 and 16. (The Times is identifying Ava, now 20, by her middle name because she was a minor during their online relationship. They never met in person.)
Note the "eventually", which is purposely vague, and just the statement that things turned graphic, which is separated from mention of the time frame of texts they reviewed. There is no hard date given to the first sexual interaction.

The only thing we can reasonably nail down is "'I never see pics of you anymore,' Adams wrote in November 2014, when he had just turned 40 and Ava was newly 16. 'You were blowing my mind.' He had pet names for her body parts." That he's putting a long gap between sexual pictures when she just turned 16 would lead me to believe that it was going on while she was 15. But, again, there is still little information about the context of the texts from when she was 14.

It could very well have been innocent when she was 14, as innocent as a man in his late 30's texting a 14 year old can be, but I don't feel comfortable saying that with any certainty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loveisreal View Post
That doesn't matter at all.. we don't know if you sexted a 14 year old as well.. we need to stick to the stuff we know and not guess stuff we don't otherwise Elvis is truly still alive.
I agree with that, but you're contradicting your original point, in which you "correct" that bit of information. As you acknowledge that we don't know what happened at 14, you can not "correct" any point made that he did.
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Old 04-26-2019, 12:34 PM   #2659
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/b...ruck-1.3872741
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Old 04-26-2019, 01:42 PM   #2660
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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"Haunted"? Fuck off Bret. And I don't call pushing a woman's head into your crotch "flirting".

I'm sure this shit-stirring has nothing to do with the fact he has a book coming out next week.
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:15 PM   #2661
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Interesting!
Does this mean he knows the official FBI result, already?

Quote: 'But the FBI said they didn’t even know if that was a crime concerning this particular case'
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:22 PM   #2662
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

How could he possibly know that? He's misrepresenting a piece of the article.
"Several legal experts said that prosecuting such cases could involve disputes over jurisdiction and whether the adult reasonably believed the minor was of legal age, taking into account context from their conversations."
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:51 PM   #2663
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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"Haunted"? Fuck off Bret. And I don't call pushing a woman's head into your crotch "flirting".
To be fair, that wasn't in the NYT piece. It probably didn't get much farther than the RA sites or RA discussions in places. Which is a shame because it should have because after the 16yo, its the most serious allegation.
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:57 PM   #2664
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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we don't know if you sexted a 14 year old as well..
Why do you keep doing this? Its so fucking weird.
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:57 PM   #2665
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by folkjam View Post
I agree with that, but you're contradicting your original point, in which you "correct" that bit of information. As you acknowledge that we don't know what happened at 14, you can not "correct" any point made that he did.
Yes you are totally right about that point. The article does give no hard date for it. I remembered that they gave a hard date in the interview though which i corrected in my post before. It was also vague in that interview where they just said the height of the sexual communication was when she was 16 where all their quotes came from but didn't say when it actually started. And yes i have to agree with you that in that article the digital sexual interaction is not directly related to the material they reviewed. I never paid attention to that detail. I'm anyway pretty sure that there were lawyers checking every single word in that article and that why a lot is written in a very vague manner.

I think the best would be to stick to "underage" instead of naming her age because we just don't know.. the only age we know for sure is 16.
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:58 PM   #2666
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

But guys, as a bunch of internet dweebs, the least we could do is get her age right so that it helps loveisreal feel better for justifying ongoing fandom.
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Old 04-26-2019, 03:03 PM   #2667
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Why do you keep doing this? Its so fucking weird.
Sorry, that was not meant as an insult. It was just to make clear that it does not make sense to say that maybe something happened we have no indications for, because that would apply to everyone and everything. But after folkjams latest explanation of the details in the article i can see why he assumed that.
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Old 04-26-2019, 03:07 PM   #2668
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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But guys, as a bunch of internet dweebs, the least we could do is get her age right so that it helps loveisreal feel better for justifying ongoing fandom.
Sorry, didn't want to start a discussion about it in the first place.. it was just that there was one comment with age 16 and then then roscoe corrected to 14 and then i said no it was 16 and so on....

But anyway discussion was quite helpful because i never paid that much attention to the details in the article.. so thx to folkjam for that.
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Old 04-26-2019, 03:09 PM   #2669
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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hahah. fucking rubbish.
no one was thrown under a bus here. ryan did this and ryan alone. the #metoo movement isn't some proverbial bus strolling along looking for perps...it's about standing up for what is right and speaking out about predatory behaviors and actions.

no one made ryan text the underage girl (correction or not, we've established the age is still illegal and UNDERAGE) AND NO one but ryan made him push someone's head to his crotch, or call phobe up to the hotel room where he lay naked ready for some action. no fucking bus. and he fucking cheated on mandy and was sexting this teenage while still married. great role model.

just a recap...and i know i'll miss some...

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Old 04-26-2019, 03:49 PM   #2670
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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I'm sure this shit-stirring has nothing to do with the fact he has a book coming out next week.
Nah, just a lucky coincidence.

Good to see Bret is still desperately trying to push outrage buttons in his eternal quest for some sort of current relevance though.

Don't get me wrong, American Psycho is one of my all time favourite books. But Ellis has always been a rabid attention seeker.

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Old 04-26-2019, 03:51 PM   #2671
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

And he would know bugger all about the current state of an FBI investigation.
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Old 04-26-2019, 03:55 PM   #2672
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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How could he possibly know that? He's misrepresenting a piece of the article.
"Several legal experts said that prosecuting such cases could involve disputes over jurisdiction and whether the adult reasonably believed the minor was of legal age, taking into account context from their conversations."
Hm, this is all a mess and I don´t know, either?

The NYT article was messy and focusing more on Mandy Moore and the #metoo movement.

As far I remember in the NYT podcast the one journalist said: it depends what Ava is up to do with legal actions.

But in the youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QziC...55382251588282
the journalist arguments pretty poor.

Besides he never answered the question in this interview if Ryan could face legal liabilities!
Isn´t this strange, when actual the theme of the article is if a crime happened or not and he has invested about 5 months of his life for this article?
Don´t tell me the journalist didn´t thought about this question and simply forgot to answer it!

Why does he prefer to talk more about the #metoo movement? Not to mention he tries to manipulate the viewer and listener by the way how he answer this questions in this video.
Sorry, for me this is not how objective journalism looks alike.


The only sort of official news I read once was:
'An unnamed FBI source later told the newspaper it was looking into the allegations, and would seek to interview the woman, who is now 20, before deciding how to proceed.'
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-47251609

I wonder if there will be any official statement or news of the FBI result.
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Old 04-26-2019, 04:06 PM   #2673
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Joe Coscarelli isn't a federal prosecutor, and it isn't his duty to suggest criminal charges. That's why the FBI got involved. I don't know why anyone would rely on a music journalist's legal opinion.

This isn't a slam dunk case, so I don't know why he'd hang his name on saying that Ryan will definitely be charged. My opinion is that, barring some major revelation, he won't be. There's too much uncertainty and grey areas.

I don't know why tying this into a MeToo issue, which it clearly is, is a problem for you. I still see instances of trying to wish this away by attacking the women or the journalist.
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Old 04-26-2019, 04:13 PM   #2674
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

I agree, I don't think Ryan will end up in jail or on a registry.


Doesn't change the fact that its still fucked.
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Old 04-26-2019, 04:14 PM   #2675
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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But anyway discussion was quite helpful because i never paid that much attention to the details in the article.. .
Yeah, there's a lot of that going around in this thread.
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