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Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough


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Old 02-20-2019, 06:08 PM   #1601
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

also, paid actors. LOL.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:13 PM   #1602
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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So we're now at a point where the defense is, "He didn't use them for sex, he just emotionally blackmailed them".
This was not a defense. But to fully understand a case it is important to try to empathize with all participants. And because this is a forum here where people discuss things i was just curious how others would see his perspective.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:15 PM   #1603
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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And he could and should have chosen not to sleep with them regardless of what they wanted knowing that it would have been wrong to do so.

I feel like I'm living in crazy town here. If I walk up to someone on the street and violently beat them, and then it turns out they're a sadomasochist and enjoyed being beaten, I still should never have assaulted someone on the street and it speaks badly to my character if I did.
Do women honestly enter into relationships blindly? Without assessing the character of the person that they will potentially be intimate with?

That doesn’t sound right at all.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:16 PM   #1604
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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You're missing the point. Even if he was interested in these women for broader, romantic rather than exclusively sexual reasons, it was wrong of him to not disclose those until after already contacting, pursuing, and offering to work with these women professionally. Even if you're coworker was interested in you romantically, it would be wrong of him to invite you into his office presumably to work on a project and then you found him completely naked when you got there (which Ryan has allegedly done before).
Nothing wrong with mixing love and profession. I married a coworker like many other people did as well. The naked thing was as far as i remember when they were already in romantic relationship, so nothing really wrong with that as well.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:16 PM   #1605
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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This was not a defense. But to fully understand a case it is important to try to empathize with all participants. And because this is a forum here where people discuss things i was just curious how others would see his perspective.
You're not showing empathy for him, you're trying to find excuses to justify how he behaved. I'm empathetic that he apparently had a rough upbringing and is severely mentally ill. That does not excuse what he has done. You are trying to lay out a scenario in which "If you don't respond, I will kill myself" is anything but abusive behavior.

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Do women honestly enter into relationships blindly? Without assessing the character of the person that they will potentially be intimate with?

That doesn’t sound right at all.
They could have known every last detail, that doesn't give him license to behave this way.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:16 PM   #1606
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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Do women honestly enter into relationships blindly? Without assessing the character of the person that they will potentially be intimate with?

That doesn’t sound right at all.
Once again, it doesn't matter. They may have made either an informed or manipulative decision and it has no bearing on Ryan's behavior. "They should have known better" is not a defense of someone's bad behavior.

I'd love to hear what some of y'all thought about Bill getting a blowjob from Monica. *Rolls eyes*
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:17 PM   #1607
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

this thread is a real heartbreaker - sure there are some really gold statements but its mostly in need of a demolition - all is fair in llor n kcor but love is hell and cold roses on jacksonville city nights for 29 days wont make you an easy tiger ... i dont practice cardinology but id like to destroy this thread until its ashes and fire ... maybe one day ryan adams will be a prisoner

[im bored while posting all of my ryan adams records to ebay]
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:19 PM   #1608
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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Once again, it doesn't matter. They may have made either an informed or manipulative decision and it has no bearing on Ryan's behavior. "They should have known better" is not a defense of someone's bad behavior.
I wouldn’t go through life thinking like that, it sounds naive and dangerous to me.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:20 PM   #1609
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

Are you purposely missing the point?
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:21 PM   #1610
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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I wouldn’t go through life thinking like that, it sounds naive and dangerous to me.
So the onus is always on the woman if they enter into a relationship that ends up abusive? They should have done their homework?
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:21 PM   #1611
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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I wouldn’t go through life thinking like that, it sounds naive and dangerous to me.
How is it dangerous to evaluate my own behavior on the basis of whether my own intentions and desires are suspect? If I'm at my job, I should evaluate my behavior based on whether I'm behaving professionally rather than romantically or sexually toward my coworkers, not based on whether I think they may or may not want to see my dick.

If I put myself in Ryan's shoes, and I find myself romantically interested in a young, relatively unknown female musician, I should ask myself whether it's appropriate to offer for them to come record at my studio and open for me on tour and then aggressively flirt and pursue them sexually when they show up at the studio. I'm not being honest with myself or with them by not disclosing my actual intentions and desires and masking them under a veneer of professionalism. The answer is that it's inappropriate.

If you look into Dan Harmon's harassment of one of his writers on Community, you'll see that kind of evaluation in his apology to her. He admits that his behavior caused her to doubt her own talents and abilities because she couldn't determine whether she was hired and kept on because she was a writer or because she was a romantic interest for her boss.

Last edited by heitrel; 02-20-2019 at 06:26 PM..
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:24 PM   #1612
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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I told myself I would not view this thread anymore and I found myself back here.
ive told myself that for the past few days but i keep finding myself checking in to see if the good guys have made any headway - respect to those still fighting the good fight
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:25 PM   #1613
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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So the onus is always on the woman if they enter into a relationship that ends up abusive? They should have done their homework?
No the onus is always on both. Otherwise you would degrade one of them.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:25 PM   #1614
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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I wouldn’t go through life thinking like that, it sounds naive and dangerous to me.
Maybe they liked him. Maybe they thought "he couldn't possibly be as bad as his rep". Did they deserve to be mistreated?
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:26 PM   #1615
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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No the onus is always on both. Otherwise you would degrade one of them.
So both are equally to blame for one being the abuser. Makes total sense, thanks.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:27 PM   #1616
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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So both are equally to blame for one being the abuser. Makes total sense, thanks.
Glad to see some sanity here.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:27 PM   #1617
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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So both are equally to blame for one being the abuser. Makes total sense, thanks.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:30 PM   #1618
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

In the simplest terms.
One person enters into a relationship. The other person enters into a relationship but behaves poorly. They are somehow equitable?
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:31 PM   #1619
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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ive told myself that for the past few days but i keep finding myself checking in to see if the good guys have made any headway - respect to those still fighting the good fight

:l ol

Crack a beer, sit back and enjoy the show
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:34 PM   #1620
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

Phoebe just tweeted this: https://twitter.com/phoebe_bridgers/...77748274241537
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:36 PM   #1621
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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So both are equally to blame for one being the abuser. Makes total sense, thanks.
No has nothing to do with blaming. Everyone is responsible for his own actions. For sure the offender is responsibe for the offense. But the victim is also repsonsibe for staying or leaving or in other words let the offense happen. There are loads of books about that offender victim relationship.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:40 PM   #1622
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

also i love the insinuation that it’s easy to exit an abusive relationship or speak out about said abuse. I think it takes a significant period of time for people to come to terms with abuse much less be able to break the relationship off and talk about it openly. Not to mention he had celebrity status to some extent.

It’s your husband, musical idol, partner, friend, etc. Someone you believe you care for and you hope will improve or change.


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Old 02-20-2019, 06:41 PM   #1623
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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But the victim is also repsonsibe for staying or leaving or in other words let the offense happen.
Uh huh, it's the victims' fault it happened. They were asking for it.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:41 PM   #1624
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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No has nothing to do with blaming. Everyone is responsible for his own actions. For sure the offender is responsibe for the offense. But the victim is also repsonsibe for staying or leaving or in other words let the offense happen. There are loads of books about that offender victim relationship.
How is the offender responsible for the offense if you're first blaming the other person for allowing it to happen it in the first place? How is Phoebe allowing Ryan's behavior when she turns off her phone in a movie theater? You are placing the burden on the victim because your insinuation is that the offender wouldn't be able to act this way if he didn't have someone to act this way towards. And if that is the case, then surely you'd say the best course of action is freezing the offender out, yet you seem to be opposed to people doing that in the wake of this article.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:50 PM   #1625
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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Uh huh, it's the victims' fault it happened. They were asking for it.
I didn't say anything about fault. From each perspective you have to take the repsonsibility for your actions. There is no way you can be responsible for the actions of another person. So if you are Phoebe your responsibility is to deal with the situation and find the best way for you. It will not help you to blame ryan or to wait for him to change. And if you are ryan you are responsible for your actions as well. And if he caused harm it is his respsonsibilty to deal with it as well.
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