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Old 03-01-2019, 05:52 AM   #2251
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Hickam's dictum


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Old 03-01-2019, 05:55 AM   #2252
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Didn't realize this was a medical issue, as opposed to a simple situation that has people performing mental gymnastics in order to rationalize it.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:58 AM   #2253
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Sorry I didn’t realise charges had been laid. It was simple after all.


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Old 03-01-2019, 06:02 AM   #2254
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Do you always base your moral compass on whether charges have been filed?
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Old 03-01-2019, 06:11 AM   #2255
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Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Do you always base your moral compass on whether charges have been filed?

I didn’t realise we were arguing about morals. Obviously not. I’m arguing the Ava part of the story is not a simple black / white case of Ryan goes to jail.


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Old 03-01-2019, 06:12 AM   #2256
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Looked at Ryan’s social media for the first time in a week or so, when did he unfollow everyone?

Just curious if it lines up with the tour cancellation.


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Old 03-01-2019, 06:20 AM   #2257
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Right, and I don't think he's going to jail. If the article contains the bombshells in their texts, they're not going to be to convincingly argue that he knew she was underage, though it's clear he strongly suspected it at the very least.

Charges aside, I don't understand why people think there's a scenario where his texts with Ava somehow become acceptable in a different light. I keep seeing criticisms of the New York Times, but there's a difference between getting a story wrong and knowingly distorting the facts to create a different narrative. I can not see any way the Times would run the risk of destroying their reputation (and paying a ton of money) to attack a B-list celebrity with bogus texts. Especially when all it would take is a simple subpoena of the texts to show the real context.

And I'm really embarrassed for anyone clinging to a "She was 16, not 14!" defense. On top of not making it any more acceptable, it shows that the person has serious trouble with reading comprehension.
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Old 03-01-2019, 06:49 AM   #2258
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by andyo812 View Post
Looked at Ryan’s social media for the first time in a week or so, when did he unfollow everyone?

Just curious if it lines up with the tour cancellation.


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I hadn’t looked in awhile either but I think it does. Saw some people saying he just unfollowed everyone on Instagram too and deleted his pics.

And.....Sharper C deleted their Twitter. Coincidence??
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Old 03-01-2019, 06:57 AM   #2259
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

interesting.

rogan should’ve asked alex jones about ryan’s twittergate situation

Friday is often a news dump day...wonder when/if we’ll hear about the investigation


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Old 03-01-2019, 07:01 AM   #2260
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

When I checked yesterday Twitter/IG showed he was still following people. Can't imagine dealing with all this, hang in there Ryan

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Old 03-01-2019, 07:58 AM   #2261
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Charges aside, I don't understand why people think there's a scenario where his texts with Ava somehow become acceptable in a different light. I keep seeing criticisms of the New York Times, but there's a difference between getting a story wrong and knowingly distorting the facts to create a different narrative. I can not see any way the Times would run the risk of destroying their reputation (and paying a ton of money) to attack a B-list celebrity with bogus texts. Especially when all it would take is a simple subpoena of the texts to show the real context.
It is not that they wouldn't tell the truth. But to write a successful article you bend the truth to have more effect and that sometimes means leaving stuff out. If you just pick one sentence out of context it could also be the opposite. For example if you are saying "i don't like that ... for example: ...". And you just copy the example it is probably the opposite. And the NYT just wrote that there was a text message with that content, which is totally true and no one can sue you for that. The interpretation is done by the readers. I'm not saying that this is the case here but it is possible and that's what it's all about. And i'm pretty sure they left everything out that could have shown a positive aspect for him otherwise the story would not have the effect they wanted.

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And I'm really embarrassed for anyone clinging to a "She was 16, not 14!" defense. On top of not making it any more acceptable, it shows that the person has serious trouble with reading comprehension.
In sense of legality it makes a difference. In a lot of countries 16 is the age where people gain sexual self-determination and it is not illegal to have sexual contact with them. There were times when it was pretty normal to become pregnant with 14-16 years of age. In a moral sense, yes it is definitely weird that a 40 year old has sexual contact with a 16 year old. But then again it is not that weird that a lot of older men have sexual desires for teenagers. It is part of their biology and young girls are a sign of fertility. But that does not mean that you have to do this even if you desire to. But i still would not compare that with child abuse or anything like that. Aside from the abuse To me it is also weird that a 40 year old is having a relationship with a 20 year old (like phoebe bridgers). Which is something that most here were fine with until now. It is weird and i can't comprehend that people are doing this but it is nothing i would blame people for. And what we still don't know is if he really knew that she was not an adult. The argument that he keeps asking can be interpreted in both ways. If he didn't care he would not have asked at all. Maybe she convinced him but then later again he got scared and asked for proof again and she convinced him again. And if he knew that she was underage why ask again and risk that she tells him. There are a lot of if's and maybe's and the whole thing is an imperative because we just don't know.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:04 AM   #2262
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Right, and I don't think he's going to jail. If the article contains the bombshells in their texts, they're not going to be to convincingly argue that he knew she was underage, though it's clear he strongly suspected it at the very least.

Charges aside, I don't understand why people think there's a scenario where his texts with Ava somehow become acceptable in a different light. I keep seeing criticisms of the New York Times, but there's a difference between getting a story wrong and knowingly distorting the facts to create a different narrative. I can not see any way the Times would run the risk of destroying their reputation (and paying a ton of money) to attack a B-list celebrity with bogus texts. Especially when all it would take is a simple subpoena of the texts to show the real context.

And I'm really embarrassed for anyone clinging to a "She was 16, not 14!" defense. On top of not making it any more acceptable, it shows that the person has serious trouble with reading comprehension.

Whatever mate.

Go read the article from the top. The first time Ava is mentioned, it reads:

“When Adams began corresponding online with a fan, Ava, in 2013, she was a 14-year-old bass player already forging a career.

But their correspondence about music turned into graphic texting. Eventually, Ava said, they conducted video calls on Skype, where Adams exposed himself during phone sex.


If you weren’t to read on further at that point, you would assume she was 14 when he exposed himself. That’s all people were pointing out. That is blurring the facts.

News is typically written in an inverted pyramid ie you present the most important facts in the beginning and work down from there. This was a longer form article and doesn’t have to follow that formula, but it highlights why this detail has been incorrectly re-reported or discussed elsewhere.

Spare me your embarrassment pity.



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Old 03-01-2019, 08:16 AM   #2263
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

This article was vetted through multiple editors, worked on for months and has a very defined paper trail, and I have to imagine that the New York Times would decide that the reward of taking down Ryan Adams is not equal to the jeopardy that falsifying information would cause. You're talking millions and millions of dollars in a judgment for that level of defamation. And the larger public is not aware of Ryan Adams enough to make that worthwhile. Not when it can be dispelled in two seconds. And, frankly, the weak denials from his lawyer tell me a lot.

I'm sure there were a ton of positive things left out, but leaving them out doesn't somehow cheapen the content of the article. We all know how charming and intelligent Ryan can be, but that doesn't somehow lessen harassing women and threatening suicide as a means of control.

I do not care about legality because I do not think he's going to be charged, let alone convicted of anything. Maybe they pull it off, but I doubt it. Furthermore, I do not care about other countries or times in history, because it happened in America in the past few years. I don't think he knew definitively that she was underage, although there's apparently stuff from that time period that does mention her age. But I know that he was concerned enough that he repeatedly had doubts, and if I have to be constantly reassured of something, that's a good indication that I know I'm doing something I shouldn't. While dating 30 year old women, I've not once had to ask them to send me nudes with identification included.

As I've said repeatedly, there hasn't been a post on here that makes me think people are looking for anything other than an out to justify being a fan. I'm assuming that everyone who suddenly swears by the letter of the law has never committed so much as a misdemeanor before. There's some real serious delusions about the media, too. I would have more respect for people just outright saying, "I don't care about this, it doesn't affect me and I just want to enjoy his music." I can respect the honesty. Everything else sounds like bargaining to me.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:18 AM   #2264
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Whatever mate.

Go read the article from the top. The first time Ava is mentioned, it reads:

“When Adams began corresponding online with a fan, Ava, in 2013, she was a 14-year-old bass player already forging a career.

But their correspondence about music turned into graphic texting. Eventually, Ava said, they conducted video calls on Skype, where Adams exposed himself during phone sex.


If you weren’t to read on further at that point, you would assume she was 14 when he exposed himself. That’s all people were pointing out. That is blurring the facts.

News is typically written in an inverted pyramid ie you present the most important facts in the beginning and work down from there. This was a longer form article and doesn’t have to follow that formula, but it highlights why this detail has been incorrectly re-reported or discussed elsewhere.

Spare me your embarrassment pity.



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Convenient that you left out the paragraph that immediately follows:

"The Times has reviewed extensive communication between the two, including 3,217 text messages they exchanged over a nine-month period when Ava was 15 and 16."
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:24 AM   #2265
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Not sure if someone posted about this yet but he unfollowed everyone on twitter and Instagram and only left two photo up on insta of him and his cats
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:25 AM   #2266
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Convenient that you left out the paragraph that immediately follows:



"The Times has reviewed extensive communication between the two, including 3,217 text messages they exchanged over a nine-month period when Ava was 15 and 16."


Then you missed my entire point. I give up.


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Old 03-01-2019, 08:28 AM   #2267
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Yeah, your point was a totally imagined scenario in which people read five paragraphs and then magically stopped at a point that is convenient for your awful argument.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:48 AM   #2268
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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As I've said repeatedly, there hasn't been a post on here that makes me think people are looking for anything other than an out to justify being a fan. I'm assuming that everyone who suddenly swears by the letter of the law has never committed so much as a misdemeanor before. There's some real serious delusions about the media, too. I would have more respect for people just outright saying, "I don't care about this, it doesn't affect me and I just want to enjoy his music." I can respect the honesty. Everything else sounds like bargaining to me.
So what you're saying is anyone 'defending Ryan' is only doing so because they want to justify remaining a fan and would not otherwise defend a musician they did not like in the same circumstances? How can you make that assumption? I don't like Coldplay but if Chris Martin was accused of sexting a 16 year old I'd make the exact same arguments if asked.

It's actually impossible to argue a 'case for the defence' here without sounding like you are 'just justifying being a fan', because whatever the motivation it involves defending his actions. I guess you're assuming it because the discussion is happening on a fan forum, but it's still an assumption unless you are a mind reader.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:50 AM   #2269
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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When I checked yesterday Twitter/IG showed he was still following people. Can't imagine dealing with all this, hang in there Ryan
poor Ryan?
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:51 AM   #2270
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

You also just completely misrepresented an interview with the co-author to minimize the gravity of the situation.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:56 AM   #2271
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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poor Ryan?
You seem so bitter. No one can have a different take or thought without your snide comments apparently, why don't you just ban everyone on the "wrong side" already or close the forum down , give your own self a little time out as you call it. Jfc
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:58 AM   #2272
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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You seem so bitter. No one can have a different take or thought without your snide comments apparently, why don't you just ban everyone on the "wrong side" already or close the forum down , give your own self a little time out as you call it. Jfc
Because I think it's absurd to feel pity for the abuser. He made those choices. This is the life he chose to lead.

You feel bad for him because he can play the guitar well and write songs. Have some perspective.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:58 AM   #2273
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Ban yourself, Rob!
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:59 AM   #2274
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Yeah, your point was a totally imagined scenario in which people read five paragraphs and then magically stopped at a point that is convenient for your awful argument.


It’s not imagined. Go do your research. The inverted pyramid technique has been used since the telegraph. It’s fundamental benefits are that someone can leave the story at anytime and have broadly understood the article. Newspapers know readers rarely read a paper front to back / top to bottom. They read headlines and first few paragraphs to get the top line news of the day. The other benefit being editors can chop from the bottom of story when finalising the layout and not detract from the main point of the story.


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Old 03-01-2019, 09:02 AM   #2275
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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You also just completely misrepresented an interview with the co-author to minimize the gravity of the situation.
Or did I alert people to the fact that a new interview had occurred presenting new details and a different tone to the article that may in some peoples minds reduce the severity of the initial accusation?
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