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Old 02-28-2019, 09:55 PM   #2251
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by a devil in paradise View Post
the quote says she was 15 and 16 when they "exchanged texts" and it doesn't say when he began sending texts of an intimate nature -- I'm sure it was an honest oversight by the writers ;-)

since we have been discussing the "fact" that Ryan was sexting a 14-year-old for like 30 pages here (including me), perhaps you could link to the posts where you corrected us about the actual content of the article as we made our baseless claims for two weeks

EDIT: 90 pages! WOW #sad
They began communicating when she was 14. The texts they were able to review were when she was 15-16. It's laid out in the article, not sure where the deception is.
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:00 PM   #2252
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

The quote says that he complained about her not sending him pictures anymore and him having pet names for her body parts when he had just turned 40 and she just turned 16. That would imply that pictures were being exchanged when she was 15.
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:02 PM   #2253
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by raisemyglass View Post
The quote says that he complained about her not sending him pictures anymore and him having pet names for her body parts when he had just turned 40 and she just turned 16. That would imply that pictures were being exchanged when she was 15.
It's gross (at best).

That doesn't give the NY Times a pass.

I'm highly unconcerned about the Ryan Adams issue in specific but in the general state of American journalism given that I am mad most of the time about the country based on reading the news.
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:04 PM   #2254
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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“And tell me that your mom is not gonna kill me if she finds out we even text.”
Clearly, he didn't think she was an adult.
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:05 PM   #2255
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by a devil in paradise View Post
It's gross (at best).

That doesn't give the NY Times a pass.

I'm highly unconcerned about the Ryan Adams issue in specific but in the general state of American journalism given that I am mad most of the time about the country based on reading the news.
Read the article again. Maybe you'll be less confused this time.
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:09 PM   #2256
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Clearly, he didn't think she was an adult.
that's the most damning thing in the whole business in my opinion -- if you have to tell a woman not to tell her mom you are doing something wrong
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:44 PM   #2257
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Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

The article quoted in the forum just now is an updated version of the article with a statement from Ryan’s lawyers so not the original article.

None of us are trying to downplay his behaviour but no one is willing to accept that their conversations were born out of love for music and not sex. He didn’t initiate these conversations.

The article spends a lot time implying behaviour without explicitly saying it. Perhaps this was to help navigate any defamation lawsuit Ryan may pursue. This sounds horrible but in the 3000 texts observed by the the NYT, why when saying their conversations turned explicit did they use the nipple quote as the lead example? He’s a fucking idiot appearing nude on Skype though. It’s hard to defend that if he genuinely knew she was underage.

There are shades of grey to this story and while all of it is appalling from a moral standpoint, it may impact the outcome of the FBI investigation.


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Old 02-28-2019, 11:01 PM   #2258
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by dmorgan1 View Post
The article quoted in the forum just now is an updated version of the article with a statement from Ryan’s lawyers so not the original article.

None of us are trying to downplay his behaviour but no one is willing to accept that their conversations were born out of love for music and not sex. He didn’t initiate these conversations.

The article spends a lot time implying behaviour without explicitly saying it. Perhaps this was to help navigate any defamation lawsuit Ryan may pursue. This sounds horrible but in the 3000 texts observed by the the NYT, why when saying their conversations turned explicit did they use the nipple quote as the lead example? He’s a fucking idiot appearing nude on Skype though. It’s hard to defend that if he genuinely knew she was underage.

There are shades of grey to this story and while all of it is appalling from a moral standpoint, it may impact the outcome of the FBI investigation.


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Which quotes were added? What was changed? Looks the same to me.
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:31 PM   #2259
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Which quotes were added? What was changed? Looks the same to me.


Sorry my bad. I thought the lawyer quotes were added after it was published. The story online now includes several follow up responses. No corrections.


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Old 02-28-2019, 11:40 PM   #2260
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by dmorgan1 View Post

There are shades of grey to this story and while all of it is appalling from a moral standpoint, it may impact the outcome of the FBI investigation.

There are only shades of grey in the Ava story if you are willing to accept that a 40 year old, semi-famous musician and a young teenage fan are on an equal footing. That's clearly not the case, is it?

As for the FBI investigation - whatever the outcome legally (and I tend to think if the NY Times had a real "gotcha" text they would have already published it), it doesn't detract from the fact that he exchanged approx 3,000 texts with Ava, some of them overtly sexual in nature, while asking her not to tell her mother about it. He either knew, or very strongly suspected she was too young. And he's 40 years old at that time, let's get this in perspective.

This, quite frankly, is not a man I could bring myself to defend or make excuses for, in any way.

And sorry, I'm not trying to have a go at you in particular. I get that you're raising these points in good faith, and you're entitled to your view. This is an issue that some of us are never going to agree on, no matter how long this thread gets.

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Old 03-01-2019, 01:19 AM   #2261
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Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by Sydneyfan View Post

There are only shades of grey in the Ava story if you are willing to accept that a 40 year old, semi-famous musician and a young teenage fan are on an equal footing. That's clearly not the case, is it?



As for the FBI investigation - whatever the outcome legally (and I tend to think if the NY Times had a real "gotcha" text they would have already published it), it doesn't detract from the fact that he exchanged approx 3,000 texts with Ava, some of them overtly sexual in nature, while asking her not to tell her mother about it. He either knew, or very strongly suspected she was too young. And he's 40 years old at that time, let's get this in perspective.



This, quite frankly, is not a man I could bring myself to defend or make excuses for, in any way.



And sorry, I'm not trying to have a go at you in particular. I get that you're raising these points in good faith, and you're entitled to your view. This is an issue that some of us are never going to agree on, no matter how long this thread gets.

No, you’re fine. We don’t have to agree on every detail. I’m not suggesting there wasn’t a power imbalance here. Although through text message this is harder to quantify.

It is possible to communicate or engage with older people on a topic they know more about and it not be an imbalance of power or seen as a sexual advance. It did happen here, but not from the outset. And of 3000 texts we’ve only seen a handful of his texts. None from her. And not in the context of how they were said or sent. Despite the story alluding to the theme around her age.


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Old 03-01-2019, 02:14 AM   #2262
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

totally, i too need more context. comparing yourself to r kelly, pet naming body parts, and showing up naked to skype sessions with an internet fan who is minor when you’re a prominent artist in his 40s could all be totally appropriate and plausible, maybe even her fault!


Their conversations were on and off, but a constant theme was Adams fretting about Ava’s age — and asking to keep their exchanges secret — while also indulging in sexual scenarios.

“I never see pics of you anymore,” Adams wrote in November 2014, when he had just turned 40 and Ava was newly 16. “You were blowing my mind.” He had pet names for her body parts.

Days later, Adams expressed anxiety: “If people knew they would say I was like R Kelley lol,” he wrote.

Yet within 10 minutes, the conversation again turned explicit. “I just want you to touch your nipple,” he texted, before again asking about her age. “And tell me that your mom is not gonna kill me if she finds out we even text.”

In response to Adams’s repeated pleas that she tell him she was 18 — “You have to convince me,” he wrote — Ava at times said she was. Sometimes he asked to see identification — “in the hottest way that has ever been done Lol.” She never showed him any ID.


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Old 03-01-2019, 03:11 AM   #2263
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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totally, i too need more context. comparing yourself to r kelly, pet naming body parts, and showing up naked to skype sessions with an internet fan who is minor when you’re a prominent artist in his 40s could all be totally appropriate and plausible, maybe even her fault!


Their conversations were on and off, but a constant theme was Adams fretting about Ava’s age — and asking to keep their exchanges secret — while also indulging in sexual scenarios.

“I never see pics of you anymore,” Adams wrote in November 2014, when he had just turned 40 and Ava was newly 16. “You were blowing my mind.” He had pet names for her body parts.

Days later, Adams expressed anxiety: “If people knew they would say I was like R Kelley lol,” he wrote.

Yet within 10 minutes, the conversation again turned explicit. “I just want you to touch your nipple,” he texted, before again asking about her age. “And tell me that your mom is not gonna kill me if she finds out we even text.”

In response to Adams’s repeated pleas that she tell him she was 18 — “You have to convince me,” he wrote — Ava at times said she was. Sometimes he asked to see identification — “in the hottest way that has ever been done Lol.” She never showed him any ID.


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I never implied it was her fault or began to suggest all of his behaviour was appropriate either. But context could change the meaning of some of their exchanges. The R Kelly comment rather than being an admission of knowing she were underage could be argued as irony, acknowledging she appeared young but took her for her word that she was 18.


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Old 03-01-2019, 05:41 AM   #2264
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Occam's Razor.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:52 AM   #2265
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Hickam's dictum


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Old 03-01-2019, 05:55 AM   #2266
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Didn't realize this was a medical issue, as opposed to a simple situation that has people performing mental gymnastics in order to rationalize it.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:58 AM   #2267
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Sorry I didn’t realise charges had been laid. It was simple after all.


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Old 03-01-2019, 06:02 AM   #2268
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Do you always base your moral compass on whether charges have been filed?
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Old 03-01-2019, 06:11 AM   #2269
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Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Do you always base your moral compass on whether charges have been filed?

I didn’t realise we were arguing about morals. Obviously not. I’m arguing the Ava part of the story is not a simple black / white case of Ryan goes to jail.


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Old 03-01-2019, 06:12 AM   #2270
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Looked at Ryan’s social media for the first time in a week or so, when did he unfollow everyone?

Just curious if it lines up with the tour cancellation.


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Old 03-01-2019, 06:20 AM   #2271
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Right, and I don't think he's going to jail. If the article contains the bombshells in their texts, they're not going to be to convincingly argue that he knew she was underage, though it's clear he strongly suspected it at the very least.

Charges aside, I don't understand why people think there's a scenario where his texts with Ava somehow become acceptable in a different light. I keep seeing criticisms of the New York Times, but there's a difference between getting a story wrong and knowingly distorting the facts to create a different narrative. I can not see any way the Times would run the risk of destroying their reputation (and paying a ton of money) to attack a B-list celebrity with bogus texts. Especially when all it would take is a simple subpoena of the texts to show the real context.

And I'm really embarrassed for anyone clinging to a "She was 16, not 14!" defense. On top of not making it any more acceptable, it shows that the person has serious trouble with reading comprehension.
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Old 03-01-2019, 06:49 AM   #2272
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by andyo812 View Post
Looked at Ryan’s social media for the first time in a week or so, when did he unfollow everyone?

Just curious if it lines up with the tour cancellation.


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I hadn’t looked in awhile either but I think it does. Saw some people saying he just unfollowed everyone on Instagram too and deleted his pics.

And.....Sharper C deleted their Twitter. Coincidence??
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Old 03-01-2019, 06:57 AM   #2273
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

interesting.

rogan should’ve asked alex jones about ryan’s twittergate situation

Friday is often a news dump day...wonder when/if we’ll hear about the investigation


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Old 03-01-2019, 07:01 AM   #2274
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

When I checked yesterday Twitter/IG showed he was still following people. Can't imagine dealing with all this, hang in there Ryan

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Old 03-01-2019, 07:58 AM   #2275
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Charges aside, I don't understand why people think there's a scenario where his texts with Ava somehow become acceptable in a different light. I keep seeing criticisms of the New York Times, but there's a difference between getting a story wrong and knowingly distorting the facts to create a different narrative. I can not see any way the Times would run the risk of destroying their reputation (and paying a ton of money) to attack a B-list celebrity with bogus texts. Especially when all it would take is a simple subpoena of the texts to show the real context.
It is not that they wouldn't tell the truth. But to write a successful article you bend the truth to have more effect and that sometimes means leaving stuff out. If you just pick one sentence out of context it could also be the opposite. For example if you are saying "i don't like that ... for example: ...". And you just copy the example it is probably the opposite. And the NYT just wrote that there was a text message with that content, which is totally true and no one can sue you for that. The interpretation is done by the readers. I'm not saying that this is the case here but it is possible and that's what it's all about. And i'm pretty sure they left everything out that could have shown a positive aspect for him otherwise the story would not have the effect they wanted.

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And I'm really embarrassed for anyone clinging to a "She was 16, not 14!" defense. On top of not making it any more acceptable, it shows that the person has serious trouble with reading comprehension.
In sense of legality it makes a difference. In a lot of countries 16 is the age where people gain sexual self-determination and it is not illegal to have sexual contact with them. There were times when it was pretty normal to become pregnant with 14-16 years of age. In a moral sense, yes it is definitely weird that a 40 year old has sexual contact with a 16 year old. But then again it is not that weird that a lot of older men have sexual desires for teenagers. It is part of their biology and young girls are a sign of fertility. But that does not mean that you have to do this even if you desire to. But i still would not compare that with child abuse or anything like that. Aside from the abuse To me it is also weird that a 40 year old is having a relationship with a 20 year old (like phoebe bridgers). Which is something that most here were fine with until now. It is weird and i can't comprehend that people are doing this but it is nothing i would blame people for. And what we still don't know is if he really knew that she was not an adult. The argument that he keeps asking can be interpreted in both ways. If he didn't care he would not have asked at all. Maybe she convinced him but then later again he got scared and asked for proof again and she convinced him again. And if he knew that she was underage why ask again and risk that she tells him. There are a lot of if's and maybe's and the whole thing is an imperative because we just don't know.
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