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Old 03-01-2019, 08:04 AM   #2276
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Right, and I don't think he's going to jail. If the article contains the bombshells in their texts, they're not going to be to convincingly argue that he knew she was underage, though it's clear he strongly suspected it at the very least.

Charges aside, I don't understand why people think there's a scenario where his texts with Ava somehow become acceptable in a different light. I keep seeing criticisms of the New York Times, but there's a difference between getting a story wrong and knowingly distorting the facts to create a different narrative. I can not see any way the Times would run the risk of destroying their reputation (and paying a ton of money) to attack a B-list celebrity with bogus texts. Especially when all it would take is a simple subpoena of the texts to show the real context.

And I'm really embarrassed for anyone clinging to a "She was 16, not 14!" defense. On top of not making it any more acceptable, it shows that the person has serious trouble with reading comprehension.

Whatever mate.

Go read the article from the top. The first time Ava is mentioned, it reads:

“When Adams began corresponding online with a fan, Ava, in 2013, she was a 14-year-old bass player already forging a career.

But their correspondence about music turned into graphic texting. Eventually, Ava said, they conducted video calls on Skype, where Adams exposed himself during phone sex.


If you weren’t to read on further at that point, you would assume she was 14 when he exposed himself. That’s all people were pointing out. That is blurring the facts.

News is typically written in an inverted pyramid ie you present the most important facts in the beginning and work down from there. This was a longer form article and doesn’t have to follow that formula, but it highlights why this detail has been incorrectly re-reported or discussed elsewhere.

Spare me your embarrassment pity.



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Old 03-01-2019, 08:16 AM   #2277
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

This article was vetted through multiple editors, worked on for months and has a very defined paper trail, and I have to imagine that the New York Times would decide that the reward of taking down Ryan Adams is not equal to the jeopardy that falsifying information would cause. You're talking millions and millions of dollars in a judgment for that level of defamation. And the larger public is not aware of Ryan Adams enough to make that worthwhile. Not when it can be dispelled in two seconds. And, frankly, the weak denials from his lawyer tell me a lot.

I'm sure there were a ton of positive things left out, but leaving them out doesn't somehow cheapen the content of the article. We all know how charming and intelligent Ryan can be, but that doesn't somehow lessen harassing women and threatening suicide as a means of control.

I do not care about legality because I do not think he's going to be charged, let alone convicted of anything. Maybe they pull it off, but I doubt it. Furthermore, I do not care about other countries or times in history, because it happened in America in the past few years. I don't think he knew definitively that she was underage, although there's apparently stuff from that time period that does mention her age. But I know that he was concerned enough that he repeatedly had doubts, and if I have to be constantly reassured of something, that's a good indication that I know I'm doing something I shouldn't. While dating 30 year old women, I've not once had to ask them to send me nudes with identification included.

As I've said repeatedly, there hasn't been a post on here that makes me think people are looking for anything other than an out to justify being a fan. I'm assuming that everyone who suddenly swears by the letter of the law has never committed so much as a misdemeanor before. There's some real serious delusions about the media, too. I would have more respect for people just outright saying, "I don't care about this, it doesn't affect me and I just want to enjoy his music." I can respect the honesty. Everything else sounds like bargaining to me.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:18 AM   #2278
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Whatever mate.

Go read the article from the top. The first time Ava is mentioned, it reads:

“When Adams began corresponding online with a fan, Ava, in 2013, she was a 14-year-old bass player already forging a career.

But their correspondence about music turned into graphic texting. Eventually, Ava said, they conducted video calls on Skype, where Adams exposed himself during phone sex.


If you weren’t to read on further at that point, you would assume she was 14 when he exposed himself. That’s all people were pointing out. That is blurring the facts.

News is typically written in an inverted pyramid ie you present the most important facts in the beginning and work down from there. This was a longer form article and doesn’t have to follow that formula, but it highlights why this detail has been incorrectly re-reported or discussed elsewhere.

Spare me your embarrassment pity.



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Convenient that you left out the paragraph that immediately follows:

"The Times has reviewed extensive communication between the two, including 3,217 text messages they exchanged over a nine-month period when Ava was 15 and 16."
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:24 AM   #2279
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Not sure if someone posted about this yet but he unfollowed everyone on twitter and Instagram and only left two photo up on insta of him and his cats
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:25 AM   #2280
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Convenient that you left out the paragraph that immediately follows:



"The Times has reviewed extensive communication between the two, including 3,217 text messages they exchanged over a nine-month period when Ava was 15 and 16."


Then you missed my entire point. I give up.


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Old 03-01-2019, 08:28 AM   #2281
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Yeah, your point was a totally imagined scenario in which people read five paragraphs and then magically stopped at a point that is convenient for your awful argument.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:48 AM   #2282
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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As I've said repeatedly, there hasn't been a post on here that makes me think people are looking for anything other than an out to justify being a fan. I'm assuming that everyone who suddenly swears by the letter of the law has never committed so much as a misdemeanor before. There's some real serious delusions about the media, too. I would have more respect for people just outright saying, "I don't care about this, it doesn't affect me and I just want to enjoy his music." I can respect the honesty. Everything else sounds like bargaining to me.
So what you're saying is anyone 'defending Ryan' is only doing so because they want to justify remaining a fan and would not otherwise defend a musician they did not like in the same circumstances? How can you make that assumption? I don't like Coldplay but if Chris Martin was accused of sexting a 16 year old I'd make the exact same arguments if asked.

It's actually impossible to argue a 'case for the defence' here without sounding like you are 'just justifying being a fan', because whatever the motivation it involves defending his actions. I guess you're assuming it because the discussion is happening on a fan forum, but it's still an assumption unless you are a mind reader.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:50 AM   #2283
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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When I checked yesterday Twitter/IG showed he was still following people. Can't imagine dealing with all this, hang in there Ryan
poor Ryan?
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:51 AM   #2284
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

You also just completely misrepresented an interview with the co-author to minimize the gravity of the situation.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:56 AM   #2285
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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poor Ryan?
You seem so bitter. No one can have a different take or thought without your snide comments apparently, why don't you just ban everyone on the "wrong side" already or close the forum down , give your own self a little time out as you call it. Jfc
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:58 AM   #2286
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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You seem so bitter. No one can have a different take or thought without your snide comments apparently, why don't you just ban everyone on the "wrong side" already or close the forum down , give your own self a little time out as you call it. Jfc
Because I think it's absurd to feel pity for the abuser. He made those choices. This is the life he chose to lead.

You feel bad for him because he can play the guitar well and write songs. Have some perspective.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:58 AM   #2287
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Ban yourself, Rob!
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:59 AM   #2288
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Yeah, your point was a totally imagined scenario in which people read five paragraphs and then magically stopped at a point that is convenient for your awful argument.


It’s not imagined. Go do your research. The inverted pyramid technique has been used since the telegraph. It’s fundamental benefits are that someone can leave the story at anytime and have broadly understood the article. Newspapers know readers rarely read a paper front to back / top to bottom. They read headlines and first few paragraphs to get the top line news of the day. The other benefit being editors can chop from the bottom of story when finalising the layout and not detract from the main point of the story.


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Old 03-01-2019, 09:02 AM   #2289
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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You also just completely misrepresented an interview with the co-author to minimize the gravity of the situation.
Or did I alert people to the fact that a new interview had occurred presenting new details and a different tone to the article that may in some peoples minds reduce the severity of the initial accusation?
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:04 AM   #2290
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

The argument falls apart when the details are literally laid in direct sequence. They didn't bury anything. Your argument is only valid if you assume people read to that one paragraph and then stopped right then and there. Which is you assigning an arbitrary marker in order to make your point.

Additionally, Ava's story is covered before anyone else's. Before Mandy, Phoebe, anyone. It's all at the top. This is clearly not an example of that layout.

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Or did I alert people to the fact that a new interview had occurred presenting new details and a different tone to the article that may in some peoples minds reduce the severity of the initial accusation?
No, you didn't do that. Nowhere in the interview did the author downplay anything. You also didn't prove a link when people requested it. Then you ignored people asking you to justify your post.
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:12 AM   #2291
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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You feel bad for him because he can play the guitar well and write songs. Have some perspective.
That's not it at all. I think I've seen you say that before. Why do you insist on it despite being told otherwise? Why so hung up on that?

Also the lot of you insisting the NyT can never be wrong are fools. The #1 priority of the journalism biz is to sell. Who bosses around the editors? The publishers. Even big time places like NYT are strapped for enough staff to fact check etc. The pressure is unbelievable. This is not conjecture it is fact. I have been a journalist so I have a bit perspective thank you very fucking much.
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:14 AM   #2292
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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That's not it at all. I think I've seen you say that before. Why do you insist on it despite being told otherwise? Why so hung up on that?
Yet you conveniently don't explain why you feel pity for a known abuser.
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:16 AM   #2293
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Yet you conveniently don't explain why you feel pity for a known abuser.
Maybe it's because he is mentally ill?
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:22 AM   #2294
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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The argument falls apart when the details are literally laid in direct sequence. They didn't bury anything. Your argument is only valid if you assume people read to that one paragraph and then stopped right then and there. Which is you assigning an arbitrary marker in order to make your point.

The argument doesn’t fall apart at all. There are plenty comments online and news snippets from other outlets reporting he exposed himself to a 14yr old.



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Old 03-01-2019, 09:25 AM   #2295
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Which brings me right back to my original point about people’s awful reading comprehension. And, again, her being 15 or 16 is not any better than her being 14.
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:27 AM   #2296
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Maybe it's because he is mentally ill?
Yeah, seriously. You can feel pity/empathy for someone personally while not justifying their behaviors.

I have volunteered with prisoners in the past and have encountered quite pitiable people who were murderers or attempted murderers or rapists. Most of them were deeply messed up people and had suffered terrible psychological and emotional anguish at some point in their lives. It's not wrong to see these people as human beings who are lost/hopeless/stuck and feel pity for that. In fact, I think it's an excellent skill and believe more people should develop it.

Feeling this way does not mean you support, condone, or diminish their negative behaviors.
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:29 AM   #2297
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Which brings me right back to my original point about people’s awful reading comprehension. And, again, her being 15 or 16 is not any better than her being 14.
Right? It's a whooping two years!!
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:29 AM   #2298
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by folkjam View Post
The argument falls apart when the details are literally laid in direct sequence. They didn't bury anything. Your argument is only valid if you assume people read to that one paragraph and then stopped right then and there. Which is you assigning an arbitrary marker in order to make your point.

Additionally, Ava's story is covered before anyone else's. Before Mandy, Phoebe, anyone. It's all at the top. This is clearly not an example of that layout.


No, you didn't do that. Nowhere in the interview did the author downplay anything. You also didn't prove a link when people requested it. Then you ignored people asking you to justify your post.
In my opinion he did downplay it compared to the tone and facts presented in the article and others have since agreed with me, if you disagree that's up to you, but it justifies me alerting people to the event.

I don't recall anyone asking for a link, but it obviously does exist and is easily found online. I wasn't easily able to add a link at the time I posted as I saw it on a different device, I guess I could have held off and not made it a 'breaking news' type post but this is a forum, not a court of law. I just expected someone else to post it imminently anyway.
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:34 AM   #2299
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Yet you conveniently don't explain why you feel pity for a known abuser.
Lol there was no "conveniently" about it, I didn't explain shit because I don't have to. You already made your assumptions from the get go it's not my job to change your mind.
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:35 AM   #2300
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Lol there was no "conveniently" about it, I didn't explain shit because I don't have to. You already made your assumptions from the get go it's not my job to change your mind.
Oh, right.
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