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Old 03-01-2019, 09:35 AM   #2301
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

You colored the interview with your own perspective and then didnít provide the link. It was asked for, and fair enough if you acknowledge that you should have held off. No one on here agreed that he begged off.
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:37 AM   #2302
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Ryan Adams has been pulling all our dicks for years!
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:49 AM   #2303
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by folkjam View Post
Which brings me right back to my original point about people’s awful reading comprehension. And, again, her being 15 or 16 is not any better than her being 14.
I'm not sure about this. His defence is that he believed she was 20 at the time their sexting began. And that isn't an altogether crazy defence: her Twitter page contained lots of photos of her performing in bars, which would be very unusual for someone underage.

Mistaking a minor for a 20 year old becomes less plausible as you shade down in age from 16 to 15 to 14 etc. So it's directly relevant to the plausibility of his defence.

I think what you're saying is that it's all pretty skeezy-- even if she was 20 it's skeezy. Fair enough, but I think everyone recognizes that it is distinctly problematic if he knowingly sexted with a 14 year old vs. sexted with someone he mistook as an 18 or 20 year old.

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Old 03-01-2019, 09:50 AM   #2304
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Lol there was no "conveniently" about it, I didn't explain shit because I don't have to. You already made your assumptions from the get go it's not my job to change your mind.
Well put.
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:54 AM   #2305
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Ok wait. Ok. I got some explanations. Hear me out.

1. Ryan is actually Satan and I hail Satan
2. This is part of my devious plan to cozy up to him and steal all his guitars
3. I'm actually Ryan
4. He could be Charles Manson I don't care, ride or die bitches
5. He made Kool aid I drank it


O this is making light of serious shit?. This thread is a shitshow. Hold on to your butts we are almost to page 100!!
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:57 AM   #2306
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by rodstewartswig View Post
I'm not sure about this. His defence is that he believed she was 20 at the time their sexting began. And that isn't an altogether crazy defence: her Twitter page contained lots of photos of her performing in bars, which would be very unusual for someone underage.

Mistaking a minor for a 20 year old becomes less plausible as you shade down from age 16, to 15, to 14 etc. So it's directly relevant to the plausibility of his defence.

I think what you're saying is that it's all pretty skeezy-- even if she was 20 it's skeezy. Fair enough, but I think everyone recognizes that it is distinctly problematic if he knowingly sexted with a 14 year old vs. sexted with someone he mistook as an 18 or 20 year old.
Totally agree. Ironically the guy I was going to see Ryan with in Birmingham had a girl on Tinder lie about her age for a couple of weeks before admitting she was 16. She had put 19 on her page and had pics in nightclubs drinking. They didnít exchange naked pics but if he did he wouldnít have lost his career over it.
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:59 AM   #2307
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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This thread is a shitshow.
I wonder how that came to be?
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:07 AM   #2308
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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I wonder how that came to be?
Why did you have to quote the most boring part of my post. Im so disappointed!
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:15 AM   #2309
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ann ann View Post
Ok wait. Ok. I got some explanations. Hear me out.

1. Ryan is actually Satan and I hail Satan
2. This is part of my devious plan to cozy up to him and steal all his guitars
3. I'm actually Ryan
4. He could be Charles Manson I don't care, ride or die bitches
5. He made Kool aid I drank it


O this is making light of serious shit?. This thread is a shitshow. Hold on to your butts we are almost to page 100!!
SEE I KNEW YOU WERE RYAN

btw you owe Tod $150,000
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:16 AM   #2310
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodstewartswig View Post
I'm not sure about this. His defence is that he believed she was 20 at the time their sexting began. And that isn't an altogether crazy defence: her Twitter page contained lots of photos of her performing in bars, which would be very unusual for someone underage.

Mistaking a minor for a 20 year old becomes less plausible as you shade down in age from 16 to 15 to 14 etc. So it's directly relevant to the plausibility of his defence.

I think what you're saying is that it's all pretty skeezy-- even if she was 20 it's skeezy. Fair enough, but I think everyone recognizes that it is distinctly problematic if he knowingly sexted with a 14 year old vs. sexted with someone he mistook as an 18 or 20 year old.
I get when you're coming from, but I don't agree. We don't know how old he thought she was. The "She looked 20" argument came from his lawyer after producing a photo. And I don't know if she looks older than her age, because I've not made an attempt to figure out who she is.

If he thought she was 20, I don't think he would have gone through the efforts he did to conceal things. He banged Phoebe when she was 20, and he shouted her name from the rooftops. Took her on tour, released her EP, etc. etc. But, in this case, Ryan repeatedly asked for ID, told her to hide their dealings from her mother (who she lived with), and likened himself to R. Kelly. So it isn't quite as innocent.

If she were 20, I would say I don't understand why a 40 year old who pulled Mandy Moore would be interested, but they're adults so fair enough.
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:18 AM   #2311
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by folkjam View Post
I get when you're coming from, but I don't agree. We don't know how old he thought she was. The "She looked 20" argument came from his lawyer after producing a photo. And I don't know if she looks older than her age, because I've not made an attempt to figure out who she is.

If he thought she was 20, I don't think he would have gone through the efforts he did to conceal things. He banged Phoebe when she was 20, and he shouted her name from the rooftops. Took her on tour, released her EP, etc. etc. But, in this case, Ryan repeatedly asked for ID, told her to hide their dealings from her mother (who she lived with), and likened himself to R. Kelly. So it isn't quite as innocent.

If she were 20, I would say I don't understand why a 40 year old who pulled Mandy Moore would be interested, but they're adults so fair enough.
Did Ryanís relationship with Phoebe overlap with his marriage to Mandy Moore?
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:19 AM   #2312
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by sniffer17 View Post
Totally agree. Ironically the guy I was going to see Ryan with in Birmingham had a girl on Tinder lie about her age for a couple of weeks before admitting she was 16. She had put 19 on her page and had pics in nightclubs drinking. They didn’t exchange naked pics but if he did he wouldn’t have lost his career over it.
Well, he might have lost his career if the media framed the facts in a way that encouraged casual readers to conclude he'd simply been sexting with a 16 year old, and portrayed his inquiries in to her age as evidence of a guilty mind.

I was just watching that TV interview with the NYT reporter, Joe Coscarelli. At one point he says that R. Kelly and Ryan Adams' behaviour are 'equally pernicious'. That is such obvious moral confusion I don't know where to begin. There is a plausible interpretation of Ryan Adams' behaviour where his worst offence is using his fame and power to pursue 20 year old girls, and then being a bully and drama queen when relationships sour. If you're temped to put that on a par with methodically recruiting and brainwashing teenagers into a sex cult, I'm sorry, you've lost the plot.
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:24 AM   #2313
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by Teenie Smith-Macbeth View Post
SEE I KNEW YOU WERE RYAN

btw you owe Tod $150,000
*Todd
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:26 AM   #2314
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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*Todd
Totaly
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:27 AM   #2315
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

As mentioned by the NYT reporters in their podcast on the topic, Ryan said multiple times he was following her career and if you were to search online or watch youtube videos of her music, by name, they would often say something about her young age, i.e. Ď15 year old bassistí.

Also when she asked ĎDo you really want to see my idí Ryan replies ĎOnly if itís in the hottest way possible, lolí



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Old 03-01-2019, 10:29 AM   #2316
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by Teenie Smith-Macbeth View Post
Did Ryanís relationship with Phoebe overlap with his marriage to Mandy Moore?

Pretty sure it did, and Iíve always been surprised that hasnít been brought up much in all this. I suppose it could be that they were ďseparatedĒ at the time, but I donít think they filed for divorce until 2015 and all this happened in 2014. Possibly part of the reason for the divorce?
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:30 AM   #2317
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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*Todd


I thought it was Tod with one d?? They made a big deal about that on his twitter thread.
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:39 AM   #2318
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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SEE I KNEW YOU WERE RYAN

btw you owe Tod $150,000
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:43 AM   #2319
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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I thought it was Tod with one d?? They made a big deal about that on his twitter thread.
Todd for real name, tod for the social media handle
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:44 AM   #2320
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by folkjam View Post
I get when you're coming from, but I don't agree. We don't know how old he thought she was. The "She looked 20" argument came from his lawyer after producing a photo. And I don't know if she looks older than her age, because I've not made an attempt to figure out who she is.

If he thought she was 20, I don't think he would have gone through the efforts he did to conceal things. He banged Phoebe when she was 20, and he shouted her name from the rooftops. Took her on tour, released her EP, etc. etc. But, in this case, Ryan repeatedly asked for ID, told her to hide their dealings from her mother (who she lived with), and likened himself to R. Kelly. So it isn't quite as innocent.

If she were 20, I would say I don't understand why a 40 year old who pulled Mandy Moore would be interested, but they're adults so fair enough.

I agree, we don't know all the facts surrounding Ryan's perception of her age. My point is that the plausibility of the 'she looked 20' defence increases if she was 16 vs. 14.

Your comparison to Bridgers doesn't work. He publicly celebrated her as an songwriter; he did not celebrate banging her. True, he did no publicly celebrate Ava's music. Perhaps this is because he believed she was a minor. Perhaps it was because Ava had no band or professional recordings to speak of.

I agree that his references to R Kelly, and asking for ID, and worrying about Ava's Mom are signs that he was uncertain. What the NYT chose not to quote directly, or even describe in detail, are Ava's texts insisting that she was not a minor. How numerous, insistent and persuasive were those texts? Did she act offended when he asked to see ID? Again, these questions matter to the plausibility of whether RA honestly mistook her for 20.

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Old 03-01-2019, 10:44 AM   #2321
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Pretty sure it did, and Iíve always been surprised that hasnít been brought up much in all this. I suppose it could be that they were ďseparatedĒ at the time, but I donít think they filed for divorce until 2015 and all this happened in 2014. Possibly part of the reason for the divorce?
I wonder if Mandy is/was ever pissed at Phoebe for sleeping with her husband.
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:52 AM   #2322
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

In that video linked a couple pages back, the reporter says they reached Ava through other sources. Sounds like someone who was not Ava came to them with this information and how to find her. They sought her out for a story. Who sent NYT to Ava, I wonder? Also I don't remember this mentioned in the article bit if it is then my memory failed me.
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Old 03-01-2019, 11:00 AM   #2323
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

I'm sure if she was talented and gigging, people close to her heard her story as to why she stopped playing.
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Old 03-01-2019, 11:28 AM   #2324
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by rodstewartswig View Post
I was just watching that TV interview with the NYT reporter, Joe Coscarelli. At one point he says that R. Kelly and Ryan Adams' behaviour are 'equally pernicious'. That is such obvious moral confusion I don't know where to begin. There is a plausible interpretation of Ryan Adams' behaviour where his worst offence is using his fame and power to pursue 20 year old girls, and then being a bully and drama queen when relationships sour. If you're temped to put that on a par with methodically recruiting and brainwashing teenagers into a sex cult, I'm sorry, you've lost the plot.
Indeed. Mr. Coscarelli has not shown himself to be that bright or capable of critical thinking. The need to flatten all offenses that fit under the purview of this buzz phrase 'sexual misconduct' speaks to a refusal to actually engage with the subject. Just as I'm not going to respect the intellect of someone who claims that shoplifting candy bars from a convenience store is equally pernicious to committing an armed robbery or embezzling millions of dollars.
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Old 03-01-2019, 11:31 AM   #2325
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by Teenie Smith-Macbeth View Post
Did Ryanís relationship with Phoebe overlap with his marriage to Mandy Moore?
At least legally, it did. If I remember correctly, Ryan listed August '14 as their separation date, and the divorce was filed in January of '15. At the time, I wondered if the August '14 date was to limit any claim she had towards royalties from the self-titled album.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodstewartswig View Post
I agree, we don't know all the facts surrounding Ryan's perception of her age. My point is that the plausibility of the 'she looked 20' defence increases if she was 16 vs. 14.

Your comparison to Bridgers doesn't work. He publicly celebrated her as an songwriter; he did not celebrate banging her. True, he did no publicly celebrate Ava's music. Perhaps this is because he believed she was a minor. Perhaps it was because Ava had no band or professional recordings to speak of.

I agree that his references to R Kelly, and asking for ID, and worrying about Ava's Mom are signs that he was uncertain. What the NYT chose not to quote directly, or even describe in detail, are Ava's texts insisting that she was not a minor. How numerous, insistent and persuasive were those texts? Did she act offended when he asked to see ID? Again, these questions matter to the plausibility of whether RA honestly mistook her for 20.
The Phoebe comparison works because he made no attempt to hide his association with her, even if we didn't know for sure that they were sleeping together. By contrast, does anyone ever recall hearing him praise the minor's skills as a bassist? Around this time, I only recall hearing him mentioning Charlie, Don Was and Tal Wilkenfeld.

The NYT freely stated that Ava lied about her age to him. But they also state that when she asked if he really wanted to see her ID, he said only in the hottest way possible. That being said, a 40 year old should still exercise better judgment than a minor.

I don't doubt for a second that Ryan thought there was a chance that she was legal, but I also know that he was worried enough that she wasn't that it became a sticking point. And that, even with those concerns, he proceeded regardless.
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