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Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough


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Old 10-21-2019, 10:21 AM   #3401
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

Still a tricky topic. We know the classic rock accepted lifestyle of the late 60s-70s accepted and celebrated things that are career breakers now.

I'm not defending RA on this, but his various transgressions over 8 some years are a weekly event are a bi-weekly event for any 80s artist.

I kind of wish the albums had just come out. Nothing criminal has seemed to emerge... he's been called out and taken a professional dive as a result. Unless he'd going to be arrested, it almost seems like censorship to not release the music. I completely get that RA and the label know the records would bomb if released this year.

I'd say if you're a young aspiring artist steer clear of RA or pretty much any other "veteran mentor."

I guess for me the rub now is that those RA songs are so emotionally based that songs that seemed so powerful before now seem contrived and fake coming from RA. I know you should separate the art from the artist, but I generally do not.
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:47 AM   #3402
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

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Originally Posted by GoodSkanky View Post
Still a tricky topic. We know the classic rock accepted lifestyle of the late 60s-70s accepted and celebrated things that are career breakers now.

I'm not defending RA on this, but his various transgressions over 8 some years are a weekly event are a bi-weekly event for any 80s artist.

I kind of wish the albums had just come out. Nothing criminal has seemed to emerge... he's been called out and taken a professional dive as a result. Unless he'd going to be arrested, it almost seems like censorship to not release the music. I completely get that RA and the label know the records would bomb if released this year.

I'd say if you're a young aspiring artist steer clear of RA or pretty much any other "veteran mentor."

I guess for me the rub now is that those RA songs are so emotionally based that songs that seemed so powerful before now seem contrived and fake coming from RA. I know you should separate the art from the artist, but I generally do not.
Would they though? I think the people that would by them a year from now, or 5 years from now would buy them today as well. The people who have written him off (including people here), will likely never buy his albums again, no matter how much time passes.
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Old 10-21-2019, 12:11 PM   #3403
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

Sure, Ryan's issues would have been seen as tame in the past, but I don't think that has any bearing in the present and future. The goal is always to be better than past generations were.

I think the main issue with Ryan and people like him is there are clear abuses of power, so when is it acceptable to restore that power to someone if a personal improvement hasn't been made, at least that the public can see? If his whole angle of mistreating women is "look what I can do for your career if you sleep with me", why give him that ability again? I think that's the whole point of the #MeToo thing, to hold people to their mistakes where the industry and law hasn't.

Ryan is a cult artist, and a lot of that core audience will remain with him whenever he fully pops back up, but the flirtations with the mainstream are most likely over. And unless Ryan goes fully independent and releases "Big Colors" and "Wednesdays" on his own, I wouldn't anticipate those songs ever seeing the light of day. If the public ever draws the parallel that those songs are about a girl who was included in the NYT article, forget it. I can't even believe he wants anything to do with those songs at this point.
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Old 10-21-2019, 02:26 PM   #3404
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

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Would they though? I think the people that would by them a year from now, or 5 years from now would buy them today as well. The people who have written him off (including people here), will likely never buy his albums again, no matter how much time passes.
I'd buy them today.
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:37 PM   #3405
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

I guess we'll have to hope for him to do Werewolph full time.
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:10 PM   #3406
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

I think he'll have a resurgence with time. And we'll definitely hear the records eventually.

I hope he's in rehab or getting himself to a better place right now. He's young enough that he can do a lot of positive things to reshape his image and be a positive person moving forward. The music industry is forgiving of people who did terrible shit but then figured it out. It's going to take time and assuming he stays healthy and mostly sober, he has a lot of time to accomplish that. I'm pulling for him, but I'm not entirely sold he'll stay out of his own way.
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Old 10-21-2019, 09:39 PM   #3407
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

history has proven he won't. I would love to be wrong, because I want everyone to be better, but again, historically...
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Old 10-21-2019, 09:48 PM   #3408
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

I'm pretty jaded toward any suggestion Ryan will improve himself, but I thought one line in a post about Neal was interesting: "I'm tired of not being that Ryan he always pushed me to be." Obviously, the exact meaning is impossible to pick out, but it might be the first legitimate acknowledgement I've seen him make about any shortcomings he has. Compared to the statements he's made about the NYT article, it seemed pretty significant to me.
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:38 PM   #3409
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

I think we’re all pulling for him to permanently become a better person.The music past and present is a second order thing to me and he is one of my favourite musicians of all time.
Best case scenario is that he becomes that better person and we get to hear the music.Wish I had more confidence in all of that happening.
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:39 PM   #3410
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

I think were all pulling for him to permanently become a better person.The music past and present is a second order thing to me and he is one of my favourite musicians of all time.
Best case scenario is that he becomes that better person and we get to hear the music.Wish I had more confidence in all of that happening.
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Old 10-22-2019, 06:08 AM   #3411
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

Im not sure what being better again for RA would even look like. Would being sober change his thing for really young women and his ability to manage relationships, personally and professionally? Relationships with a wide age range do happen and often work, but everyone hes been associated with have been models, actresses, and musicians... Too many schedules and egos to balance and he has issues with power dynamics. I fear that RAs combination of vices, entitlement, self victimization, and vanity wont ever be fully resolved.
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Old 10-22-2019, 09:29 AM   #3412
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Thumbs up Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

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Im not sure what being better again for RA would even look like. Would being sober change his thing for really young women and his ability to manage relationships, personally and professionally? Relationships with a wide age range do happen and often work, but everyone hes been associated with have been models, actresses, and musicians... Too many schedules and egos to balance and he has issues with power dynamics. I fear that RAs combination of vices, entitlement, self victimization, and vanity wont ever be fully resolved.
being sober is only so good if he's willing to change behavior...otherwise, drunks/addicts just get stuck in that loop.
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Old 10-22-2019, 11:07 AM   #3413
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

If we're gonna get deep here, the need to get fucked up and his behavior towards women (and men, if we're being honest) most likely come from the same place. His parents basically abandoned him, and he grew up around his grandparents, hanging in the woods by himself. There's a lot of underlying issues there, and the need for control and an inability to pick up on social cues are pretty common with that type of upbringing, but it's not something he's going to magically fix in time for the next album release. He needs heavy duty therapy for years, and it's hard to imagine him sticking with that. Maybe Neal's death woke him up a bit. We'll see.
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Old 10-24-2019, 09:48 AM   #3414
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

Ryan's been pretty quiet on the socials recently.
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Old 10-25-2019, 10:25 AM   #3415
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

I've been listening more and more to his music lately...it hasn't really lost any of its "luster" for me. I don't look at the lyrics, emotion, etc. as being "insincere" considering the allegations. To me, his music comes from a place full of pain and trauma...which is probably the exact same reason he behaves like he does in real life. Most super talented artists function WAY better creating than they do in the normal world.

Like someone else said, he had a weird/tough childhood...and in a strange way I see a lot of his infatuation with pinball, denim suits, cats, comic books, video games, etc. as a sign he never really "grew up." I have little doubt he's sincere when he talks about his grandmother, brother, etc. I'm sure he loved them and is still clearly grieving over a lot of that. Doesn't excuse behavior, but could explain some of his shortcomings as a person.

Last edited by SweetBlackMagic; 10-25-2019 at 10:28 AM.. Reason: Grammar
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Old 10-25-2019, 10:25 AM   #3416
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

(Accidental double post of above)

But also...I'd buy all three albums today if they were available.

Last edited by SweetBlackMagic; 10-25-2019 at 10:26 AM.. Reason: Duplicate
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Old 10-27-2019, 04:23 PM   #3417
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4Imcntp...d=73sjaksgzo0h
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Old 10-27-2019, 08:23 PM   #3418
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

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hard to not think of the cardinals when hearing this song
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Old 10-27-2019, 08:23 PM   #3419
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

Clip looks like it might be from the Enmore Theatre show in Sydney as part of lead up to Prisoner shows. Benny Yurco was epic and slayed on the guitar.
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Old 10-27-2019, 09:17 PM   #3420
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

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To be clear, the less worst stuff is tolerable?
it's easy to say you've never been mean to your girlfriend when fighting with your girlfriend if you've never had a girlfriend
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Old 10-30-2019, 08:42 AM   #3421
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

Really strange posts today. Posted a picture of his VCR pedal on Instagram, and said "Grateful that I have 2 of them so I can get that sound it used to take me 4 pedals to get. Godbless!" Then, in a separate, since-deleted post, trashed them while talking to another pedal maker, complaining that they broke after a week and called the owner a "pious dick" for reskinning them about the NYT article.

So not much has changed.
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Old 10-30-2019, 10:04 AM   #3422
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

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Really strange posts today. Posted a picture of his VCR pedal on Instagram, and said "Grateful that I have 2 of them so I can get that sound it used to take me 4 pedals to get. Godbless!" Then, in a separate, since-deleted post, trashed them while talking to another pedal maker, complaining that they broke after a week and called the owner a "pious dick" for reskinning them about the NYT article.

So not much has changed.
lol really? i saw he had like 4 posts this morning. Or my morning, maybe his last night.
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Old 10-30-2019, 10:34 AM   #3423
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

Yeah, the pious dick comment was in response to Electric Death Pedals on the "To Be Without You" post.
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Old 10-30-2019, 11:03 AM   #3424
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

hes also replied to his own post?

social media is not a good thing for some folks.




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Old 10-30-2019, 12:07 PM   #3425
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough

he's obviously still allergic to "that healing crap"
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