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Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough


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Old 02-17-2019, 06:30 PM   #1051
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

This is going to sound cold,I haven’t posted in a long time but I’m a big fan of his. Other than the 14-year-old girl allegation I think the rest is all bullshit. It’s like he was mean to me !He said I wasn’t a musician! it’s all ridiculous other than the 14 year old girl. If that’s the worst Mandy Moore was told about her music than she’s lying. Ryan Adams was not that big enough of a star to hinder her music career in any way. Hell she has sold more records than him by a mile. If she had good songs she had probably more connections than him at big labels and could have easily gotten them out there.

This also feels like it was orchestrated by somebody. The timing is just too perfect. Mandy Moore especially is using this as publicity for her new “songs”. I mean most of these women gave positive interviews about him not too long ago as seen above.

The 14-year-old girl allegation is a serious one there’s any truth to that then he’s in trouble if he in deed did know. Knowledge is the key in these cases and it very difficult to prove and that’s why many of these cases are not pursued. I’m speaking as a lawyer.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:59 PM   #1052
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

29 Amex Cards? Wtf? I have 3 and I think that’s decadent.
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:09 PM   #1053
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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Originally Posted by blackmoon View Post

This also feels like it was orchestrated by somebody. The timing is just too perfect. Mandy Moore especially is using this as publicity for her new “songs”. I mean most of these women gave positive interviews about him not too long ago as seen above.
I myself find the timing too perfect as well, which is very odd to me
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:27 PM   #1054
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

That’s some truly awful lawyer logic.
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:57 PM   #1055
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

MM was outspoken about the pitfalls in their marriage leading up to this.

Phoebe, although somewhat positive in interviews still pointed out the creep factor, i.e requesting a photo prior to meeting.

3+ other mentions of emotional abuse with sexual nodes were reported by other artists and musicians.

The sketchy behavior witnessed by all of us over his career support the high possibility that these allegations are plausible and true.

There is absolutely no reason for a single one of these women to lie.

He’s being investigated for the underage stuff, question or leave the rest if you choose but to say it’s coordinated for some type of plug is how this type of behavior persists.

It’s amazing to me that in the current indie music environment where there is seeming positivity and sharing and a resurgence of smaller artists that we somehow believe people are out to get or defame him and not even stopping there but using it to bolster their exposure.

I say this as someone who is not a lawyer.






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Old 02-17-2019, 07:58 PM   #1056
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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I myself find the timing too perfect as well, which is very odd to me
This was calculated to be done at the perfect time and to cause maximum effect. Someone has been planning this for a while. Why was Mandy Moore’s picture the only one in the article and seemed specifically done for the article? They have been divorced for a long time now and she is remarried to another musician. But now she comes forward about emotional abuse and immediately announces the next day she is in the studio on her new songs looking joyful as ever. To her this is publicity for starting her new music career and she is not hiding it.
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:58 PM   #1057
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

Excuse the quick thread diversion, but if anyone's trying to figure out the background of Courtney Love's latest instagram post, it dates back to 2008 when Ryan was recording Rock n Roll.

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Courtney Love, one of rock’s great OG bloggers, posted another brilliant (not brilliant) open letter on MySpace. In it she accuses fellow blogger/musician Ryan Adams of using $858,000 of Frances Bean Cobain’s money to fund his 2003 album Rock n Roll, “one of the worst records i can think of in rock and roll history.” Ryan’s gear, hotels, drugs, dinners at Nobu … all expensed to Courtney, stolen STRAIGHT OUT OF FRANCES”S TRUST FUND. Courtney has 29 AMEX cards, so it took a few years for her to notice.

Ex-boyfriends Ed Norton, Billy Corgan, and “Gollum” (Jim Barber, who produced Rock n Roll) all get name-checked in the diatribe. (Ryan and Courtney had “very safe sex” too, it is revealed.) A highlight of her overshare:

does that makje youf eel like a big man ? stealing from a suicide? A MARTYRED HERO? … as God Is My Witness Ryan you will pay back every fucking penny of this. 858,000 dollars for Rock n Roll ? wow you were living large- most people reading this dont even know what record or even artist im referring to , as your just this cult americana wanna be dylan thing-

still shooting smack? hows that going for you?

Full text of Courtney’s missive after the jump. She says she’ll be in NY next week and is willing to work out a payment plan.
Saturday, July 19, 2008

Ryan Adams you fucking weasel. deal with it.858,00$
Current mood: determined

Listen this is another open letter
this to a beyond mediocre piece of shite- maybe its just my moment to fucking get the knives out of my back,
but in any case between 00 and 04 before ….well a dark pit of shit and fake names and insanity follows with lots and lots of people counting on Kookoo cherry not being able to prove things- and thats for another day- those people have not played chess with me.
But i was sitting with some people going thru the 29 american express cards that i didnt know existed that were connected to a few HUNDRED bank accounts,and there were all the bills for Ryan Adams worst record and one of the worst records i can think of in rock and roll history ironically called”Riock and Roll ” and it was paid for by ME and mostly by my child.
and when i met Ryan we had a mild little flirtation, why not? but i made the deathly stupid decision to instead of just have very safe sex with him ( hes pretty dirty and man ive been around but im the virgin mary comparitevly) or make friends. no i fucking pimped my useless , ridiculaously terrible loser “Boyfriend” ( who ironically Edward Norton hates no one any more than this fuck and for good reason , yet Edwards OWN business manager put Barber up on West XXth street kitty corner from Edward, Barber could see into Edwards Apartment, and then he had his own Dean and Deluca account and an ABC Carpetand Home account and spent about 250,000 on furniture and another 600,000 dollars on travel, this loser who hasnt had a job since 98 – while Frances didnt have hardly enough to eat and i sure as hell didnt) i pimped Barber onto Ryan,”oooh hes a great producer”- maybe it wasbnt honourable0 i just wanted Barber gone, so maybe i used Ryan to get him gone,
yeah you listen to this shit im listening to my i tunes on right now who names a record “Rock n Roll” what assholes do that?
with these trebled up guitars my bandmate said sounded like “really horrific rem on steroids” all treble and compresssion and shit wirtten songs – but so what?
well on my amex atthat time the 858 but also from bank accounts….theres 200,000 thousnad dollar checks written to Barber for “comissions” ididnt even know where the fuck he was ! but here on Amex 28 is the entire invoice for Ryan- your ENTIRE album and meals and drugs and Hotels and outboard gear and wasted fabullous guitars STRAIGHT OUT OF FRANCES”S TRUST FUND
So you little shit, maybe you had NO IDEA right? is that why you used a hysterical voice mail of a very terrified and flipped out me- for your worst reviewed record and well deserved too, this record is shite totally one of the worst recordings ive ever heard yet Ryan you YOU spent 858,000 dolllars on this record of MY DAUGHTERS MONEY. so whats your paying me back plan? illbe in New York next week , you can start by working out your payment plan, because i will litiagate your thieving ass from here til eternity, your a thief and i used to think you had some subtsance to you then i find out your being managed or your money is by Victoria Blake? is that POSSIBLE? whata great PAL that lizard like cretin is t o you and i hope you had fun that week in :Jamaica” whilst more of my kids money was being shoved offshore- but thats not the point- Billy may have made my kid cry but i wasn’t in the room – he’s family and he always will be- he just laid his Billy trip on a person a little too young for it- I’m over it. but YOU RYAN, OWE FRANCES 858<000 dollars , so should isend the amex copies to Blake and he "staff"? because i would enjoy that very much,what a really good friend to leave you with someone whose been diagnosed as an "utter psychotic" by a professional foresnic psychiatrist. This record sucks i mean WOW! is this what youd like me to tell my kid a fraction of her money was stolen for this shite "Rock N Roll " cd shall i post the outboard gear and 4 seasons billls and fancy Nobu dinners, ahh so thats why you released two records at once where you getting paid a salary to let Gollum "produce" you cos we both know what a reall fucking genius that guy is, and this isnt about Gollum- hes inthe hands of the professionals, i walk away now knowing everything, all of it , its disgusting and its a fucking nuclear explosion of greed i dont think american history has ever seen but no other artist was ever involved in this scandalous vile behaviour ......but you were and i note to self; you suck on this record with your bile towards me, ande its gutless and cowardly and shit, and you know it, Pay me back Ryan, Pay Frances back. an dtake my fucking voice off that piece of shit. everyone in the world knows your giving your all and your all just isnt enough and you just keeep chugging- keep playng mediocre safe music some of wich i like- d an d then i saw these amex bills. it s makes me so sick you used my voice on this, really disgusting and horrific, you knew what they were doing to me and frances, and yet you just spent our money HER money in this specific case- does that makje youf eel like a big man ? stealing from a suicide? A MARTYRED HERO? fun for you. big man. wow. impressive. Yeah well theres nothing good about suicide and i should know- but to take my near suicidal depression and use it on my daughters paying fo ryour shit record, you get the point you can find me im sure- and ill be happy to work out a payment plan But as God Is My Witness Ryan you will pay back every fucking penny of this. 858,000 dollars for Rock n Roll ? wow you were living large- most people reading this dont even know what record or even artist im referring to , as your just this cult americana wanna be dylan thing- i think you have value as an artist but as a human your beneath contempt- let me know if im incorrect about the fact that you knew full and well that Barber /Gollum was using my money to pay for your self admitedly shit record- and let me know if i am wrong and your not with Blake, if you are your certainly getting what yousdeserve! no wonder you look like utter shit, and healthy as jaundice, HEY YOU KNOW WHEN YOU GO DOWN ITS HYSTERICAL. an excellent lyric wouldnt you think.? still shooting smack? hows that going for you?
https://www.stereogum.com/11141/cour...ances_b/video/
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:19 PM   #1058
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

I guess what I've never understood is how Ryan had access to Cobain's daughter's trust fund? Is it possible that Love paid for the record with money that wasn't hers and is now passing the buck?

I don't trust Ryan's version of anything at this point, but Courtney Love isn't exactly a reliable narrator
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:24 PM   #1059
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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I guess what I've never understood is how Ryan had access to Cobain's daughter's trust fund? Is it possible that Love paid for the record with money that wasn't hers and is now passing the buck?

I don't trust Ryan's version of anything at this point, but Courtney Love isn't exactly a reliable narrator
Absolutely Gilly. I think even Solomon would develop a nervous tic and a drinking problem if he had to settle a dispute between Love and Adams.
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:27 PM   #1060
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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Originally Posted by blackmoon View Post
This was calculated to be done at the perfect time and to cause maximum effect. Someone has been planning this for a while. Why was Mandy Moore’s picture the only one in the article and seemed specifically done for the article? They have been divorced for a long time now and she is remarried to another musician. But now she comes forward about emotional abuse and immediately announces the next day she is in the studio on her new songs looking joyful as ever. To her this is publicity for starting her new music career and she is not hiding it.
FOH
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:27 PM   #1061
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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Originally Posted by GILMORE104 View Post
I guess what I've never understood is how Ryan had access to Cobain's daughter's trust fund? Is it possible that Love paid for the record with money that wasn't hers and is now passing the buck?

I don't trust Ryan's version of anything at this point, but Courtney Love isn't exactly a reliable narrator
this
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:38 PM   #1062
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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This is going to sound cold,I haven’t posted in a long time but I’m a big fan of his. Other than the 14-year-old girl allegation I think the rest is all bullshit. It’s like he was mean to me !He said I wasn’t a musician! it’s all ridiculous other than the 14 year old girl. If that’s the worst Mandy Moore was told about her music than she’s lying. Ryan Adams was not that big enough of a star to hinder her music career in any way. Hell she has sold more records than him by a mile. If she had good songs she had probably more connections than him at big labels and could have easily gotten them out there.

This also feels like it was orchestrated by somebody. The timing is just too perfect. Mandy Moore especially is using this as publicity for her new “songs”. I mean most of these women gave positive interviews about him not too long ago as seen above.

The 14-year-old girl allegation is a serious one there’s any truth to that then he’s in trouble if he in deed did know. Knowledge is the key in these cases and it very difficult to prove and that’s why many of these cases are not pursued. I’m speaking as a lawyer.
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:42 PM   #1063
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

“The worst thing...yeah that’s bad...the rest...BULLSHIT”
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:52 PM   #1064
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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MM was outspoken about the pitfalls in their marriage leading up to this.

Phoebe, although somewhat positive in interviews still pointed out the creep factor, i.e requesting a photo prior to meeting.

3+ other mentions of emotional abuse with sexual nodes were reported by other artists and musicians.

The sketchy behavior witnessed by all of us over his career support the high possibility that these allegations are plausible and true.

There is absolutely no reason for a single one of these women to lie.

He’s being investigated for the underage stuff, question or leave the rest if you choose but to say it’s coordinated for some type of plug is how this type of behavior persists.

It’s amazing to me that in the current indie music environment where there is seeming positivity and sharing and a resurgence of smaller artists that we somehow believe people are out to get or defame him and not even stopping there but using it to bolster their exposure.

I say this as someone who is not a lawyer.






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I guess I chalk the Phoebe (change of heart) thing up to her being young at the time and maybe a bit naive. She probably also didn’t want to step on anyone’s toes as a young artist I suppose.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:21 PM   #1065
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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One of my best friends is mentally ill and was an alcoholic and drug addict. Over the course of about a year, she completely fell apart and, at various points, tried to kill herself to control her partner, tried to murder her partner with various household tools, and smeared her partners name to all his friends. This person committed criminal offenses. Yet, thankfully, she was able to go away to inpatient treatment and get the help she needs. After two years of intense self-care, she was able to work her way back into her old life and behave healthily in a relationship with the same man. They have no been together for over five years and are getting married next year. She also started a non-profit for abused individuals and has grown it into one of the leading organizations in her city. She has helped thousands.
Cool. What if she had kept up this pattern of abuse for 15 years? What if she had been told off by dozens of romantic partners, business partners, and friends and continued to lash out? What if she had a source of power- like being the boss in a large company- that would continue to provide her new people to victimize, while the old victims were silenced though fear and manipulation? What if she had surrounded herself with a bunch of sycophants who would excuse her behavior and shut down any attempt to hold her accountable for her actions? What if she kept getting worse, kept relapsing on drugs, kept blacklisting anyone who tried to get her help?

What if this refusal to hold her accountable led to her feeling bold enough to abuse a child?

I had BPD (no longer meet diagnostic criteria) and have been total shit to people close to me. People tried to love me better and I would change my behavior up to the point where I stopped getting what I wanted, then I would act out again. After years of this people finally started talking out in the open about how I'd hurt them and I ended up being told I was unwelcome in my friend groups, music scene, and my city. It was the worst, most mortifying thing that's ever happened to me. It was also what it took for me to understand how my actions were hurting people. I literally didn't think my behavior counted as abuse BECAUSE people kept putting up with it, and kept making excuses for why I was that way.

It's not a tragedy that Ryan has to face consequences for his own actions. It's just not.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:49 PM   #1066
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

The Phoebe interview just posted does make things a bit cloudy on that front. And out of everyone MM makes me feel like she could possibly be acting opportunisticly. That being said basically everyone else he’s had relationships with has come out and said similar things. And no one has come to his defense. Not one person that I’ve seen. That’s not good.

Also F Courtney Love for many reasons. If a large part of this RA thing is the type of person he is, she ain’t the best barometer by a long shot

Ryan may be in deep shit but it’s very easy to determine if he stole 80K over 27 Amex cards

27 LOL
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:29 PM   #1067
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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The Phoebe interview just posted does make things a bit cloudy on that front. And out of everyone MM makes me feel like she could possibly be acting opportunisticly. That being said basically everyone else he’s had relationships with has come out and said similar things. And no one has come to his defense. Not one person that I’ve seen. That’s not good.

Also F Courtney Love for many reasons. If a large part of this RA thing is the type of person he is, she ain’t the best barometer by a long shot

Ryan may be in deep shit but it’s very easy to determine if he stole 80K over 27 Amex cards

27 LOL

No one even if they even wanted to do would dare come forward and go against the me too movement. The media would them eat them alive.
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:33 PM   #1068
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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No one even if they even wanted to do would dare come forward and go against the me too movement. The media would them eat them alive.
That was my thought too. I'm sure there are people who would love to speak out, but with the social media culture we live in, you'd probably end up destroying your own career.
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:58 PM   #1069
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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That was my thought too. I'm sure there are people who would love to speak out, but with the social media culture we live in, you'd probably end up destroying your own career.
Kinda fucked to be honest. Went right past the solution and all the way to the other extreme. Why we so dumb?
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:23 PM   #1070
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

This thread has taken so many turns it's hard to keep up. One minute it's easy to think these are just accusations, and he hasn't been convicted of anything yet; the next minute I want to smash my Carnegie Hall box with a rock.

I know that if Courtney Love is questioning your character things must be pretty fucked though!
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Old 02-18-2019, 12:38 AM   #1071
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

I would like to know what Norah Jones and Kim Gordon say. If anything...
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:07 AM   #1072
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Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

So Tod’s wife Katy not long ago posted this on Instagram..




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Old 02-18-2019, 04:42 AM   #1073
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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Come on you know that this comment is stupid. First bad behaviour in a relationship isn't a crime. And second you would call the police and let them do their business and not discuss it in a forum. Or maybe would you first go to the local newspaper and tell them before you would tell the police?
Boasting about grabbing women by the pussy isn't a crime either. So I suppose that's none of our business either?
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:48 AM   #1074
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

If the girl sent naked pictures of herself to an adult, would she be charged of possession and distribution or child pornography?


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Old 02-18-2019, 04:51 AM   #1075
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Re: Your favorite singer/songwriter is a Perv: The Thread

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Actually you still don't get what i'm trying to say. It is not about him and more about how media and people behave in a situation like that. You are all fucking with someone’s life. This is not a game. And actually you were not part of anything that happened but you think you know what happened and how to judge. And as far as i can see his most hardcore fans are the ones screaming the loudest now. Maybe because they are deeply disappointed and hurt and the first reaction for most hurt people is anger.
Arguably, we as the fans are the ones who made his life pretty awesome and allowed him to live the life he leads. If by withdrawing our support of that lifestyle is "fucking with someone's life" then sure, whatever... I can't in good conscience enable him with any of my $ anymore.
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