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Old 03-09-2019, 09:59 AM   #26
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

Was it the drunk driver who crashed into the tree, or the driver.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:02 AM   #27
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

We didn't know about the manipulation. The lording over.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:10 AM   #28
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

Call me what you want.. but even if all the Ava stuff is 100% how ny times reported it.. I don’t need to rehash what’s been said but 3000 correspondences. You think Ryan was intentionally trying to ruin this girls life? I’d assume there’s ways to find underage girls with less effort. Sounds fucked up? Sure. But this is the actions of a drug addict or someone recently clean who did not learn how to live a healthy life.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:11 AM   #29
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

Sorry for hijacking thread away from original purpose.. but it was brought on by all the snide comments
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:12 AM   #30
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

No, I think he was trying to manipulate her to his own ends. I don't think he had any intention of ruining her life, or any other womans. His only intention was to fulfill his own needs. But you are correct, this is the behavior of someone who has not learned to live a healthy life. Drugs/booze have been a symptom of that as well.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:14 AM   #31
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

To be clear he has issues that go beyond substance addiction. Its mental problems mixed with a shit ton of mental baggage, and nothing has been dealt with properly.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:14 AM   #32
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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We didn't know about the manipulation. The lording over.
Oh címon... you needed things literally spelled out in print for you? who are you, Todd?
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:15 AM   #33
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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To be clear he has issues that go beyond substance addiction. Its mental problems mixed with a shit ton of mental baggage, and nothing has been dealt with properly.
This.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:17 AM   #34
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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What point are you making? Aside from AA (Ava allegation) we all knew about most of these women he’s dated / married / been engaged to, and how horribly self destructive he was to himself and others.
The point was pretty crystal clear. The person I responded to said it was "3 or so people" in an article, as if that invalidated the reporting. So I pointed out the list of women he's been involved with who have spoken out about their own traumatic experiences with him since the article was published. It's not three or so, it's a lot more than that. How many women have to speak out before we believe them over one man?

Him being a drug addict does not excuse how he behaved. Mentally ill people do not have free reign to treat people horribly. I have no idea why people have trouble with this idea, beyond not wanting to accept it.

He doesn't have to have tried to ruin Ava or anyone else's life, and that was never the point.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:30 AM   #35
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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The point was pretty crystal clear. The person I responded to said it was "3 or so people" in an article, as if that invalidated the reporting. So I pointed out the list of women he's been involved with who have spoken out about their own traumatic experiences with him since the article was published. It's not three or so, it's a lot more than that. How many women have to speak out before we believe them over one man?

Him being a drug addict does not excuse how he behaved. Mentally ill people do not have free reign to treat people horribly. I have no idea why people have trouble with this idea, beyond not wanting to accept it.

He doesn't have to have tried to ruin Ava or anyone else's life, and that was never the point.

And Iím just saying this really is no new news for us who have beeen following Ryan for a while.

Respectfully disagree with your point of view on mental illness. Free reign? No. But conceivable that intentions do actually mean something? and impaired judgement is not the real you thinking and acting.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:46 AM   #36
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

I don't think we were quite as aware of the depth of his awfulness. Maybe all the pieces were there, fine, but this NYT article was a Special Agent Kujan - Kobayashi moment for many.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:52 AM   #37
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

I am interested in where you are going with the argument "We've known he's been this way forever" though.
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Old 03-09-2019, 11:01 AM   #38
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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And I’m just saying this really is no new news for us who have beeen following Ryan for a while.

Respectfully disagree with your point of view on mental illness. Free reign? No. But conceivable that intentions do actually mean something? and impaired judgement is not the real you thinking and acting.
So what's your argument? It didn't need to be written about so people that idolize him could get 3 new albums? I think a lot of long time people on here that follow him didn't realize the extent and amount of women that were be affected. I certainly didn't and I knew he was a shitty person. The only person to blame is Ryan for his actions or inability to get help he needed all along.
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Old 03-09-2019, 11:50 AM   #39
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

Not trying to argue . ive Been following this board since it opened... everyone here has seen and read a lot..and as phoebe says that Ryan had a group around him of enablers. It’s not the same, but there is some hypocrisy in this outcry here, and now.

I started the thread with a genuine curiosity question, not to reopen a locked thread.
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Old 03-09-2019, 12:04 PM   #40
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

If deciding I'm done with him now because of this and being willfully ignorant of all previous behavior is hypocrisy, then I can live with being a hypocrite.

But to be fair, I don't think its hypocrisy. I think times change. What is seen as acceptable and isn't has changed. #MeToo emerging was a watershed moment. And yes, you can cringe when you look back at what was tolerated before, but its how you behave going forward that makes the difference.
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Old 03-09-2019, 12:06 PM   #41
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

To answer the question, yeah I'm sure he's picked up some new fans. But nowhere near the amount to offset what he's lost.
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:14 PM   #42
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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I think times change. What is seen as acceptable and isn't has changed. #MeToo emerging was a watershed moment. And yes, you can cringe when you look back at what was tolerated before, but its how you behave going forward that makes the difference.
Agreed. Is this true for Ryan as well?
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Old 03-09-2019, 04:51 PM   #43
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

Well, its complex but for Ryan, it certainly depends on what the FBI find. But beyond that , he has to really try to make amends by owning what he's done, and show that he is striving to be better and he needs to take care of his shit. Even then theres no guarantee you can come back. I'm not optimistic though.


Also, to make clear there is a chasm of difference from what people close their eyes, ears, voices and minds to, and people who are generally shitty by abusing others.
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Old 03-09-2019, 11:34 PM   #44
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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why are you so satisfied? are you ashamed of yourself for contributing to over 19 thousand posts, usually in mr adams' favor in the past? has anyone ever heard the phrase, innocent until proven guilty? i really don't get how people are so quick to make "conclusive" assumptions based on one article with 3 or so people that were interviewed.
"Innocent until proven guilty" is a principle of our justice system and you can't expect it to function as well in other contexts. Seriously, if someone you knew mentioned that someone he/she had recently met was a "total creep" for this or that reason, would you jump to tell them that you're not going to believe them because that person is "innocent until proven guilty?" Give me a break. Stop being lazy and waiting on criminal charges and use your own moral judgment instead to decide if and to what extent you want to trust the people who've come forward and what to do.
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Old 03-10-2019, 12:03 PM   #45
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

Hard to prove innocence or guilt in a he said/she said situation. But thats why #BelieveWomen is a thing because 99.9% of abuse accusations are real. very few are made up. Because of that I have no problem dumping Ryan and believing these accusers.
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Old 03-10-2019, 01:51 PM   #46
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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Hard to prove innocence or guilt in a he said/she said situation. But thats why #BelieveWomen is a thing because 99.9% of abuse accusations are real. very few are made up. Because of that I have no problem dumping Ryan and believing these accusers.
Yet here you are.....on a Ryan Adams fan forum
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:47 PM   #47
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

OK?


There is other stuff discussed here.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:38 PM   #48
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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Yet here you are.....on a Ryan Adams fan forum
And here you are, snidely trolling on a board that you showed very little interest in , until there was some drama to entertain you. Off you go, and take your bloated sense of entitlement with you.
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:30 PM   #49
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

womp womp
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:58 PM   #50
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

The only people defending Ryan are his fans, most of which never had any interaction with him. Not one person close to him came to his defense. Don't really understand what proof people are looking for
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