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#26 |
Moo
![]() Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5,547
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
I highly recommend it Sydney, it's one of my favorite books, better than Atlas Shrugged in my opinion. It's 750 pages though so be prepared to take some time to read it.
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#27 |
Evil wimmin powers
![]() Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 35,304
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
I didn't make the Aristole connection, but that's a moot point really, since Rand seems to have made it already.
I just really struggle with a philsophy that says " if you want help, help yourself". This is just not possible for everyone in the world. Some people are born into the most dire circumstances. Some people are born with inherent disablities, some people are born the wrong colour or religion for whichever governemnt is currently in power. They can try all they like, but the simple fact is that their chances of success are limited by the regime and morality of the day. |
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#28 |
the hell is thish words??
![]() Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hell
Posts: 7,258
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
yes, you're right about aristotle. he's just not my favourite
![]() i'm only skimming wikipedia. she certainly is interesting. i agree with some of this stuff, but strongly disagree with other bits. weird that she thought homosexuality immoral, but good that she thought the government has no business making laws about it. but also that she thought racism immoral, and yet didn't think there should be laws against it. she apparently opposed the government spending money on charity, but not individuals (though she didn't see charity as virtuous either way) |
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#29 | |
the hell is thish words??
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
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#30 |
the hell is thish words??
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Location: Hell
Posts: 7,258
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
also bizarre - ryan doesn't seem to me to be that into being rational.
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#31 |
Moo
![]() Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5,547
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
America is getting to the point where arguments like "someone is born the wrong color" doesn't fly anymore. We have potentially the first black President, potentially the first latino VP, we have black people in very high ranking positions in the government, business, etc etc... We have to sometime get beyond our petty differences due to differences in genetics. (You never hear about Clarence Thomas, Michael Steele, Condaleeza Rice, Colin Powell, etc etc.. as being great black Americans. Mostly here, they're painted as sell outs.)
The most amazing people I actually see here in America are those who fled from East European countries after the fall of the Soviet Union. Talk about coming from nothing. To them, having a bathroom with running water was a luxury. To that end, these people are the hardest workers we have in our country (harder working than a lot of citizens.) It should be clear though that these people are not corporate executives, or even managers of their own businesses. They are the people who go out, work hard every single day, never complain, never ask for help, and don't make a million dollars in life, but they are living free. They earn every penny they get and it's a great feeling. (sorry for the rant). I also completely agree with her that government should not be in the business of giving charity. The Government is the biggest waster of spending in the world. There is no profit motive, no demand and no competition. Private companies will use their charity money much more effectively than a government 10 out of 10 times. If you want to solve a lot of problems in the world, look to private companies. |
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#32 |
the hell is thish words??
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
ok, but america is not the world.
i don't really see why, on a very basic level, rights and ideas should be different for americans. and where do you draw the line when you talk about the government spending money on charity? hospitals? international aid? what about when the people in louisiana were suffering? |
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#33 |
Evil wimmin powers
![]() Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 35,304
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
I firmly believe that a society that does not support its weakest links is a society in trouble. Maybe not today, or next week, but eventually.
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#34 |
Moo
![]() Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5,547
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
I'm not sure I follow your first point? Why are rights and ideas different for Americans? They always have been. I'm not sure how else to answer that?
Most hospitals in America are privately owned. For instance, St. Mary's Hospital in my hometown is owned by a private company called "Bon Secours". The only real instance of Socialized, government regulated health care in America are military health care facilities and free clinics (neither of which are very good.) When the people in Louisiana were suffering? They were largely suffering due to the Government aid that was given. The Ice trucks, water trucks, etc etc... were all government subsidized and they was actually a very large controversy over how much money was wasted on them and how a lot their product was never delivered (No profit motive to get it there.) If it was a private company delivering a product it makes out of its own pocket, you never would have had an issue. |
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#35 |
Moo
![]() Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5,547
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
Sydney: I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I will speak for my views personally (I like to think I represent near a majority of Americans.)
I do not consider people the "weakest links" by virtue of the color of their skin, socioeconomic situation. I consider people the weakest link in their work. If you're paid to do a job, and you do not do it, you're the weakest link, I don't care if you're black, white, purple green, fat, tall, skinny, short, 9 toes, 7 hands etc etc... |
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#36 | |
the hell is thish words??
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Location: Hell
Posts: 7,258
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
well... clearly the whole world is in trouble, we're slowly and selfishly killing our earth.
the admiration for mankind's "progress" is disturbing. new york is pretty and pretty amazing, but it's got nothing on one single sunset. i found this on the internets: Quote:
having said that, the more i read, i do hold a kind of fascinated admiration for her. i just don't agree. |
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#37 | |
the hell is thish words??
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Location: Hell
Posts: 7,258
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
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i was talking about the world, and you answered about america only. i just found that interesting. when i think about philosophies, i usually apply them to everyone. |
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#38 |
Moo
![]() Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5,547
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
I wish Mr. Berliner could claim that argument as his own, but I've been hearing that for awhile now.
the founder of Green Peace is actually the biggest opponent to the environmentalist movement because it's been hijacked by people with a political agenda. Not really a new point, been made since the 1980's. I have a hard time buying the whole global warming argument as it is. I'm sitting here in Virginia in 40 degree weather. We're coming out of the worst winter in almost 9 years now and 2007 was one of the coolest years on record. Do not forget that the same scientists claiming global warming claimed global cooling 25 years ago with the exact same information. |
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#39 |
yeah, you've got me shakin
![]() Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,936
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
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#40 |
Moo
![]() Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5,547
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
What are you talking about? You asked about Louisiana, so I responded about Louisiana? What's wrong with my philosophy? I gave you the reason why the supplies needed didn't get there and the way it could be solved in the future?
You asked about hospitals, I cited a hospital my family and I use? I was merely stating there that the Government doesn't subsidize hospitals here. Did I miss something? |
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#41 |
the hell is thish words??
![]() Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hell
Posts: 7,258
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
well... we had to change our habits to help close the ozone hole. so we did. the hole is still there, but it's not as big a problem now.
now we have a different problem. your point about the weather being fucked could be a symptom of the problem. "global warming" involves the whole world, not just your backyard. if the weather changes in one place it affects other places, temperatures might be higher in some places and lower in others, but our ice caps are melting. |
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#42 | |
the hell is thish words??
![]() Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hell
Posts: 7,258
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
Quote:
anyway, i appreciate you taking the time to read and respond, this is really interesting. thanks ![]() |
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#43 |
Moo
![]() Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5,547
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
Oh no, I find this really interesting. It's always fun seeing different opinions than my own. We could go a lot of directions with this debate (we ultimately have Ryan to thank for us even having this discussion).
I guess what I'm trying to emphasize is a mentality that a lot of people have (thanks in large part to Ayn Rand.) I honestly believe that I can do things better and more efficiently than someone else can do for me. Do I personally believe that the government should have no role in our lives? No, of course not. But I feel that it does need to be a limited role. |
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#44 | |
Evil wimmin powers
![]() Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 35,304
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Re: "“Ayn quests for her ideal rational hero. Anti-communist (was born in Russia) and
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So should we ignore other people who are destitute, or who are unemployed, or who for whatever reason, can't feed their kids? Maybe they didn't "help themselves" but I believe that a just society would see the need to help them anyhow. |
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