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Old 03-10-2019, 08:09 PM   #51
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

Yeah, it’s really damning actually.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:13 AM   #52
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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But to be fair, I don't think its hypocrisy. I think times change. What is seen as acceptable and isn't has changed. #MeToo emerging was a watershed moment. And yes, you can cringe when you look back at what was tolerated before, but its how you behave going forward that makes the difference.
Agreed! But what i don't agree with is the argument that if the bad stuff happened a while ago it is acceptable. The action stays the same and it doesn't matter if it happened 40 years ago or now. And you can't blame ryan and on the other hand say it's ok for Jimmy Page to have sex with a 13 year old because it was 40 years ago. And that's what the hypocrisy is about. They ban ryan of the radio stations but still play Led Zeppelin etc. You have to treat people the same way.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:34 AM   #53
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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Agreed! But what i don't agree with is the argument that if the bad stuff happened a while ago it is acceptable. The action stays the same and it doesn't matter if it happened 40 years ago or now. And you can't blame ryan and on the other hand say it's ok for Jimmy Page to have sex with a 13 year old because it was 40 years ago. And that's what the hypocrisy is about. They ban ryan of the radio stations but still play Led Zeppelin etc. You have to treat people the same way.
Exactly!!! It’s like that argument “In my day we didn’t know any better/it was acceptable” that drives me nuts. If times have changed it should apply to everyone, no “grandfathering in” unacceptable behavior for certain people.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:45 AM   #54
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

Yeah, we should re evaluate old stuff like that.
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:33 PM   #55
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

Was watching the Michael Jackson documentary last night. The reaction of people when the nonguilty verdict was announced and the hatred of the people that came forward years after the abuse seem similar to the fans that are putting blame on the victims of Ryan or just want to deny he did anything wrong outside the 14 year old girl.
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Old 03-11-2019, 03:56 PM   #56
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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Yeah, we should re evaluate old stuff like that.
totally. including movies like animal house. i mean, belushi knocked out it of the park....but it's FUCKING TERRIBLY outdated.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:18 PM   #57
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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or just want to deny he did anything wrong outside the 14 year old girl.
Some of them aren't even willing to concede that's entirely wrong until there's a trial and he's found guilty. Which probably won't happen and that's precisely the out they are looking for.

And I'm not just talking about the Alt Country Pervert thread. I've looked at reddit and couple of other music discussion boards since this news broke, and there's a lot of fans out there vigorously defending RA.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:23 PM   #58
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

And to address the OP's original question, apparently Michael Jackson's streams have increased after the airing of the Leaving Neverland documentary. Make of that what you will.


https://www.billboard.com/articles/c...ving-neverland
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:41 PM   #59
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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Exactly!!! It’s like that argument “In my day we didn’t know any better/it was acceptable” that drives me nuts. If times have changed it should apply to everyone, no “grandfathering in” unacceptable behavior for certain people.
I agree!

I don't understand, why people find it´s fine to listen John Lennon who did beat his first wife or listen to David Bowie, Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, etc. who slept with underage girls but won´t listen to Ryan Adams anymore.

Sure, in the end I think everybody will listen to the music they enjoy most but it´s not logical to make Ryan Adams a black sheep or call him a monster of the music industry while others who have done more immoral actions are still praised like heroes.
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Old 03-11-2019, 05:31 PM   #60
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

It could have to do with Ryan's songwriting being so wrapped up in the ideas of heartbreak, failed love and relationships and self analysis. his actions betray that art and with this new light makes it look different.


But yes, the point still stands, what do we do with the art of artists who have done shitty things. Bonus points to those who can be ideologically pure. Everyone has their scale though.

I don't listen to Zeppelin or the Stones. I enjoy Bowie but honestly don't listen to him much. The Beatles are tough to give up, I'd like to justify it as them being bigger than one person and their failings. But since this RA stuff I've really tried hard to reevaluate how I approach these artists. Its a process I guess.
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:22 PM   #61
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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It could have to do with Ryan's songwriting being so wrapped up in the ideas of heartbreak, failed love and relationships and self analysis. his actions betray that art and with this new light makes it look different.
I think for me it has a lot to do with my relationship with Ryan; I've grown up with him and his music over the past 12-15 years. Feels like he's been there for me, for the good, the bad and whatever else. He released new music as I grew, as he grew, as times changed. So, learning that things are much worse than what I'd assumed was a jarring shock to the system.

Being introduced to bands like Zeppelin, the Beatles, Bowie, etc., for me happened over a period of weeks or maybe months (thank you streaming music and, before that, Napster -like services and family record collections). Yes, some of the music has really stuck with me, but my connection to it is somehow different. None of this excuses anything the band did outside the music, but hearing about what someone did 30-40 years ago, from a band I binged over a period of a month when I first listened to them, is a very different dynamic, personally; that music hasn't worked it's way into my psyche in the same way.

So, going back to the title of the thread, if all this press does generate new fans, they might equally be more 'forgiving' of the personality because of their connection -- or, specifically the lack of a connection -- to the music. And the real question would be, will they still be fans in fifteen years? I like Zeppelin, etc., I know the music, but I'm not a fan of them in the way I was a fan of Ryan's. That takes time and experience and trust...
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Old 03-12-2019, 03:27 PM   #62
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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So, going back to the title of the thread, if all this press does generate new fans, they might equally be more 'forgiving' of the personality because of their connection -- or, specifically the lack of a connection -- to the music. And the real question would be, will they still be fans in fifteen years? I like Zeppelin, etc., I know the music, but I'm not a fan of them in the way I was a fan of Ryan's. That takes time and experience and trust...
This is similar to the thought I had when starting the thread.
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Old 03-12-2019, 06:35 PM   #63
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

He’ll always sell records. He’ll always play shows (albeit, smaller venues), but there’s always gonna be this astrick. Because times have changed.
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Old 03-12-2019, 06:37 PM   #64
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

People see Led Zeppelin as a a legendary band, but let’s be honest, no one really gives a shit about LZ anymore. So they let shit slide, because what sort of cultural relevance do they have now? They are an antique from another time that does nothing now. Ryan was a living breathing viable artist.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:38 AM   #65
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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People see Led Zeppelin as a a legendary band, but let’s be honest, no one really gives a shit about LZ anymore. So they let shit slide, because what sort of cultural relevance do they have now? They are an antique from another time that does nothing now. Ryan was a living breathing viable artist.
i guarantee there were more people drooling over LZ records 2 months ago then RA ones.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:33 AM   #66
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

I have never been able to get into Led Zeppelin at all. I was all about the Pink Floyd in college.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:56 AM   #67
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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People see Led Zeppelin as a a legendary band, but let’s be honest, no one really gives a shit about LZ anymore. So they let shit slide, because what sort of cultural relevance do they have now? They are an antique from another time that does nothing now. Ryan was a living breathing viable artist.
Also, they come from a time where the hedonism of it all was kind of celebrated. It's hard to send a battalion of #MeToo activists back in time to rip Plants nuts off (though his vocals would have been even better if they had!).

Sadly, RA's worst transgressions would have taken place on any given Thursday for most arena bands from 1969 - 1991.

Someone should do a comedy sketch about a sexual misconduct allegation trial for Motley Crue. (I suppose that exists via Steel Panther...)
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:59 AM   #68
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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He’ll always sell records. He’ll always play shows (albeit, smaller venues), but there’s always gonna be this astrick. Because times have changed.
Maybe. I think it's too soon to tell what the longterm impact will be on his career.

I went to see Steve Earle the other night. It actually had me thinking about Ryan. Steve has serious addiction issues and a history of being an awful husband/partner. He abandoned his kids. He's done a lot of work over the last 20 years to improve his life. He is considered a music legend/hero now. He got a standing ovation the other night in Boulder. I think with time - and honest effort and growth - Ryan has the ability to be viewed differently too. Will he? I don't know.
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:21 PM   #69
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

Led Zeppelin is still relevant, it's just that Ryan's issues are current and affected people in the public eye. It's a lot easier to take down a marginally famous person who's still active, rather than trying to attack Robert Plant well after the fact.

In addition, legacy acts are still the ones selling records, as opposed to just streams. The industry needs "Whole Lotta Love" a lot more than "Come Pick Me Up".
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Old 03-13-2019, 04:03 PM   #70
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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Maybe. I think it's too soon to tell what the longterm impact will be on his career.

I went to see Steve Earle the other night. It actually had me thinking about Ryan. Steve has serious addiction issues and a history of being an awful husband/partner. He abandoned his kids. He's done a lot of work over the last 20 years to improve his life. He is considered a music legend/hero now. He got a standing ovation the other night in Boulder. I think with time - and honest effort and growth - Ryan has the ability to be viewed differently too. Will he? I don't know.
yep.
exactly. it'll go a long ways in my book and others' if he mans up and gets his act together.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:26 AM   #71
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

i agree. Honest, comeback / recovery stories hold weight. It’s too early but I’m hoping that’s the path Ryan pursues.


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Old 03-14-2019, 08:35 AM   #72
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

I hope he chooses that paths for his victims sake and for his own. But I don't think I'll ever go back to him.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:50 AM   #73
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

same, certainly not at the level I celebrated him previously. He’ll always have an asterisk.

It’s been said but the content of his music and where it intersected in my life was very profound. I find it kind of emotionally synonymous with cheating or a break up or losing a good friend. Sucks but the right thing to do, at least for me personally.


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Old 03-14-2019, 11:34 AM   #74
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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Was watching the Michael Jackson documentary last night. The reaction of people when the nonguilty verdict was announced and the hatred of the people that came forward years after the abuse seem similar to the fans that are putting blame on the victims of Ryan or just want to deny he did anything wrong outside the 14 year old girl.
But there is also a big controversy regarding the documentary. You can read a few facts here: https://www.mjinnocent.com/

Also a lot of valid German newspapers criticised the documentary for being too one sided and that the current US trend with documentaries and newspaper articles like that build up a parallel law system where people can be manipulated easily. If anyone is interested here are two links (maybe google translate can help) http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/tv/leav...a-1256181.html and http://www.taz.de/!5579077/

And what's also quite interesting is Bill Mahers take on US media these days and their hunt for clicks instead of valid news: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL67FQ_uGBg
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:45 PM   #75
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Re: Wonder if allegations have brought new fans

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But there is also a big controversy regarding the documentary. You can read a few facts here: https://www.mjinnocent.com/

Also a lot of valid German newspapers criticised the documentary for being too one sided and that the current US trend with documentaries and newspaper articles like that build up a parallel law system where people can be manipulated easily. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL67FQ_uGBg

Documentaries are very often one-sided. They are subjective explorations of real events, not courts of law. There's a thread for discussing Leaving Neverland here:

http://www.tobeyoung.org/showthread.php?t=33322
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