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Old 04-24-2019, 12:12 PM   #2601
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

At best he's a shitty partner who for some reason thinks its ok to put down your partner, at worst he's pulling a Weinstein but without the sex stuff and physical abuse.

I think anyway you cut it is still abuse (even in its mildest form) and toxic behavior. Its a problem with many dudes in society and it needs to be curbed.
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:20 PM   #2602
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Ryan Adams is not being investigated by the FBI because he told his wife she wasn't a musician. Mandy Moore was not the only woman to make negative allegations about his behaviour. I highly doubt the NYT would have run a news story solely based on Mandy's experiences.

You're absolutely right that the NYT would never have run a news story based solely on Mandy's experience -- his mistreatment of her was that of an insensitive and self-absorbed spouse; hardly newsworthy, let alone grounds for career cancellation. So instead the NYT wove together fairly disparate stories: some involving him dangling success, some not; one involving an underage girl, the others not; some involving his emotional outbursts, some not.

I just think there's something a little sloppy and morally suspect about throwing all of a person's misdeeds up on the wall-- ranging from major (Ava) to minor (Mandy)-- and then pretending that, together, they confirm some awful grand narrative. You will see people commenting things like, "8 women corroborated these allegations against RA" - but really there's no common thread between those 8 stories apart from his being an emotionally manipulative & self-absorbed prick. In public consciousness, though, the story gets imprinted as "Ryan is a pedophile and 8 people confirmed this".

I absolutely agree that the Ava story is far more serious. But if he's somehow exculpated on that front --e.g., if a full reading of the texts shows that he made a concerted effort to ascertain her age, and she made every effort to convincingly mislead him-- I have no confidence whatsoever that the public will correct its opinion of him proportionately. And that is because the NYT purposely entangled various narratives of differing severity, leading lots of people to believe that for example Mandy Moore was seriously victimized (and heroic for speaking up) in a way that should be career cancelling for Ryan.

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Old 04-24-2019, 12:28 PM   #2603
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by Tim Simmons View Post
At best he's a shitty partner who for some reason thinks its ok to put down your partner, at worst he's pulling a Weinstein but without the sex stuff and physical abuse.

I think anyway you cut it is still abuse (even in its mildest form) and toxic behavior. Its a problem with many dudes in society and it needs to be curbed.
If this shakes out as, "he's a shitty partner who for some reason thinks its ok to put down your partner," then I'm not sure he deserves to be pilloried in the name of #metoo.

Among other things, there are plenty of women who are shitty partners and put down their partners; I've witnessed examples of this by both genders, some with a viciousness that puts Ryan to shame.
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:51 PM   #2604
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by Tim Simmons View Post
At best he's a shitty partner who for some reason thinks its ok to put down your partner, at worst he's pulling a Weinstein but without the sex stuff and physical abuse.

I think anyway you cut it is still abuse (even in its mildest form) and toxic behavior. Its a problem with many dudes in society and it needs to be curbed.
That's like saying, "He's like Ted Bundy, without the physical violence and murder."

I'm not defending DRA as a husband and partner. But being controlling is much different than being a borderline sexual predator with a casting couch policy.

Weinstein is the worst. He and Cosby. To even equate DRA and Moore's marriage to one of their names is very hyperbolic and misleading.
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:54 PM   #2605
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by rodstewartswig View Post
You're absolutely right that the NYT would never have run a news story based solely on Mandy's experience -- his mistreatment of her was that of an insensitive and self-absorbed spouse; hardly newsworthy, let alone grounds for career cancellation. So instead the NYT wove together fairly disparate stories: some involving him dangling success, some not; one involving an underage girl, the others not; some involving his emotional outbursts, some not.

I just think there's something a little sloppy and morally suspect about throwing all of a person's misdeeds up on the wall-- ranging from major (Ava) to minor (Mandy)-- and then pretending that, together, they confirm some awful grand narrative. You will see people commenting things like, "8 women corroborated these allegations against RA" - but really there's no common thread between those 8 stories apart from his being an emotionally manipulative & self-absorbed prick. In public consciousness, though, the story gets imprinted as "Ryan is a pedophile and 8 people confirmed this".

I absolutely agree that the Ava story is far more serious. But if he's somehow exculpated on that front --e.g., if a full reading of the texts shows that he made a concerted effort to ascertain her age, and she made every effort to convincingly mislead him-- I have no confidence whatsoever that the public will correct its opinion of him proportionately. And that is because the NYT purposely entangled various narratives of differing severity, leading lots of people to believe that for example Mandy Moore was seriously victimized (and heroic for speaking up) in a way that should be career cancelling for Ryan.
Exactly.

Here's another lazy article that throws stuff on the wall: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...lyrics-796686/

"He said ass!"
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Old 04-24-2019, 01:28 PM   #2606
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by TheHappiness View Post
Exactly.

Here's another lazy article that throws stuff on the wall: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...lyrics-796686/

"He said ass!"
Yeah. That article is trash.
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Old 04-24-2019, 01:33 PM   #2607
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by TheHappiness View Post
Exactly.

Here's another lazy article that throws stuff on the wall: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...lyrics-796686/

"He said ass!"
That's the article that was so ridiculously terrible that I called the author out on twitter over the lyrics he thinks he heard (which I'm pretty sure he misheard) and within an hour of me doing that there was an addendum to the article saying something like "well, we can't be certain what words he sang: 'ass' or 'it's'." Such a joke.
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Old 04-24-2019, 04:29 PM   #2608
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Hey, way to go overboard.

Fact is, Mandy Moore was not #metoo. She wants it to be #metoo. She wants that sympathy and that excuse why she's released one album of original material since 2001.

I've always said, all that other stuff Adams is accused of needs shown the light of day. Was his 'thing' to promise record deals to Bridgers and others, only to have him flake out, or bail on it? That's certainly not good.

But even in Bridger's case, the 'phone sex' story isn't abuse either. It's a bad relationship (they were in a relationship, right)?


Adams was very shitty. To Bridgers, Prass and others. And if he knowingly chatted with a 14 or 15 year old, that's another can of worms altogether. Bad bad bad.


But, not helping Mandy Moore make a record and further his career is not a crime. And being a shitty, selfish husband isn't a crime either that's worthy of a NY Times article...
Hey, way to ignore the point being made and instead keep flogging the same poor horse. The only fact is that you think Mandy Moore isn't a victim. Nor Bridgers either, by the sounds of it. Probably not looking real good for the other woman mentioned in the article either. But, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But a fact it ain't. You don't get to define what others should think or feel.

The NYT looked at a range of women involved with Ryan. And it highlighted a pattern of controlling behaviour that ranged from manipulative through to clearly abusive to potentially illegal. Do you think Mandy Moore is the only reason the NYT wrote the article? Is that why Ryan's super fans seem so keen to keep blaming her for his actions? Or is it maybe just much easier to belittle her than it is to defend a 40 year old man who told a girl he was sexting not to tell her mother about him?

The light of day has been shone of Ryan's behaviour, just as you say you think it should. Except now you don't seem very happy with the results. Apparently the light was shone in the wrong place, or on the wrong woman or by the wrong failing fake news outlet. Or something.

And the point has been made countless times in this thread that RA's behaviour towards Mandy Moore wasn't criminal. Trying to suggest otherwise is just a strawman and one that apparently just won't lie down and die.
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Old 04-24-2019, 04:34 PM   #2609
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Is it just me, or would this thread be much shorter and a whole lot less irritating if people would just admit they couldn't care less about what RA has done and they just want their three freaking albums?
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Old 04-24-2019, 04:34 PM   #2610
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Back down this rabbit hole again
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Old 04-24-2019, 04:37 PM   #2611
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Back down this rabbit hole again
You seemed to find it all pretty hilarious yesterday.
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Old 04-24-2019, 04:41 PM   #2612
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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You seemed to find it all pretty hilarious yesterday.
Someones a little defensive
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Old 04-24-2019, 04:46 PM   #2613
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Someones a little defensive

And someone's beginning to sound pretty trollish.
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Old 04-24-2019, 04:52 PM   #2614
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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And someone's beginning to sound pretty trollish.
Not sure if an observation is "trollish", but mmmmmmk
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Old 04-24-2019, 04:55 PM   #2615
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Not sure if an observation is "trollish", but mmmmmmk
This is probably not the way to change my mind.
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Old 04-24-2019, 04:59 PM   #2616
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Is it just me, or would this thread be much shorter and a whole lot less irritating if people would just admit they couldn't care less about what RA has done and they just want their three freaking albums?
pretty much.
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:03 PM   #2617
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by rodstewartswig View Post
If this shakes out as, "he's a shitty partner who for some reason thinks its ok to put down your partner," then I'm not sure he deserves to be pilloried in the name of #metoo.
I mean sure. But its not just that. Gatekeeping when you have the power in a relationship IS abuse. Are there tiers of abuse, sure, I guess. To me that doesnt matter. But like Syd said, MM is one part of this thing. There are other women involved too
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:06 PM   #2618
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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That's like saying, "He's like Ted Bundy, without the physical violence and murder."
Not really. You take away the assault, rape, violence from Weinstein, you have a manipulative power lording egomaniac wanting to "help out" young women. Sounds like the RA we have come to know.
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:49 PM   #2619
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Originally Posted by rodstewartswig View Post
You're absolutely right that the NYT would never have run a news story based solely on Mandy's experience -- his mistreatment of her was that of an insensitive and self-absorbed spouse; hardly newsworthy, let alone grounds for career cancellation. So instead the NYT wove together fairly disparate stories: some involving him dangling success, some not; one involving an underage girl, the others not; some involving his emotional outbursts, some not.

I just think there's something a little sloppy and morally suspect about throwing all of a person's misdeeds up on the wall-- ranging from major (Ava) to minor (Mandy)-- and then pretending that, together, they confirm some awful grand narrative. You will see people commenting things like, "8 women corroborated these allegations against RA" - but really there's no common thread between those 8 stories apart from his being an emotionally manipulative & self-absorbed prick. In public consciousness, though, the story gets imprinted as "Ryan is a pedophile and 8 people confirmed this".

I absolutely agree that the Ava story is far more serious. But if he's somehow exculpated on that front --e.g., if a full reading of the texts shows that he made a concerted effort to ascertain her age, and she made every effort to convincingly mislead him-- I have no confidence whatsoever that the public will correct its opinion of him proportionately. And that is because the NYT purposely entangled various narratives of differing severity, leading lots of people to believe that for example Mandy Moore was seriously victimized (and heroic for speaking up) in a way that should be career cancelling for Ryan.
this is spot on imo
the more distance i have from that NYT piece- the more i view it as a bad attempt at 'investigative'reporting in the 'me too' movement.
and if the FBI does not charge- there needs to be a follow up piece.
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Old 04-24-2019, 06:17 PM   #2620
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Not really. You take away the assault, rape, violence from Weinstein, you have a manipulative power lording egomaniac wanting to "help out" young women. Sounds like the RA we have come to know.
I think your comparison is a little strained if it begins, "well if you take away the assault, rape & violence..."

It's true that RA used his status as a way to hit on young women; that is pretty sleazy. But if you think for example Phoebe Bridgers story of being 'totally down' for a fling with Ryan 'sounds like' Weinstein's litany of accusers, you need to refresh your memory: https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41580010
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Old 04-24-2019, 06:22 PM   #2621
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

Fine I retract that analogy, But RA is still an abusive POS.
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Old 04-24-2019, 06:39 PM   #2622
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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But RA is still an abusive POS.
Sure, but lets not overlook the real victims here. There are people who haven't got to listen to Big Colours yet, Tim.

Consider their pain please.
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:46 PM   #2623
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Back down this rabbit hole again
says the fuckin rabbit.
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Old 04-24-2019, 08:17 PM   #2624
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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says the fuckin rabbit.
Really?

Make a comment "back down this rabbit hole again" and somehow that is offensive, if there is a way to delete my account can someone please share or just ban me. That would be fine as well.

Waaaaay too much negativity going on here, but best of luck to everyone (this isn't sarcasm although I would assume it will be taken in such a way).
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:14 AM   #2625
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Re: Alt-Country R. Kelly: The Thread

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Sure, but lets not overlook the real victims here. There are people who haven't got to listen to Big Colours yet, Tim.

Consider their pain please.

exactly. thank you.
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