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Ryan Adams, abuse, the Stans, and people who believe no apology is good enough


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Old 06-28-2019, 08:22 PM   #3076
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

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Originally Posted by Pound4ABrown View Post
You try too hard at being the standard bearer,
fucking Lol is right.
You've been given plenty of opportunity to state your opinions and made yourself pretty clear. Your most recent posts are just passive aggressive snark directed at individual members. Time to move on perhaps.
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Old 06-28-2019, 09:01 PM   #3077
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

Time to move on, perhaps...

Ain’t that true.
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Old 06-29-2019, 02:13 AM   #3078
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

For those still wondering if you can separate the art from the artist and can still listen to Ryan’s songs and albums, Nick Cave wrote a interesting piece about it when asked a question about Morrisey in his Red Hand Files.
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Old 06-29-2019, 06:22 AM   #3079
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

I think the difference being that Morrissey’s offense is expressing an opinion, and Ryan has actively, physically and emotionally, harmed other people. And if Ryan is using his position as a prominent figure to hold power over women, then people are gonna think twice about giving him that power to begin with.

It’s a lot easier to brush off a stupid pin on someone’s jacket than to ignore what Ryan is alleged to have done. I listened to “We Disappear” a couple days ago after months of staying away from Ryan’s music, and it just isn’t the same anymore.
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Old 06-29-2019, 09:12 AM   #3080
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

I also think so much of Ryan’s lyrical content is driven his by relationships. It’s caused me to look at a lot of songs from a different perspective after these accusations. When you think that many songs were written from the POV of someone who emotionally manipulates, they can take on a different tone.

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Old 06-29-2019, 12:03 PM   #3081
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

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I think the difference being that Morrissey’s offense is expressing an opinion, and Ryan has actively, physically and emotionally, harmed other people. And if Ryan is using his position as a prominent figure to hold power over women, then people are gonna think twice about giving him that power to begin with.

It’s a lot easier to brush off a stupid pin on someone’s jacket than to ignore what Ryan is alleged to have done. I listened to “We Disappear” a couple days ago after months of staying away from Ryan’s music, and it just isn’t the same anymore.
I never heard or read that Ryan has physically harmed other people
I`m somehow sure otherwise Ryan would have been charged in some way or other, already!

....so far I am aware of his allegations are about his ex´s which did accuse him for abuse, err, let me correct like the newspaper wrote additional: it was for emotional abuse like being a too clingy boyfriend and when relationships turn sour or a marriage fails and etc....
Besides as far I remember it was kindly mentioned in the newspaper even it was somewhere lost in the article, after the dramatic headline, that Ryan never was physically abusive to his ex´s or/and the underage girl who lied constantly about her age!

PS: yes, I still find the NYT story quite edgy and where´s the follow up story?
I mean if this is all true what they wrote. Ofc the NYT is the only newspaper we people can rely on.
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Old 06-29-2019, 01:11 PM   #3082
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

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I never heard or read that Ryan has physically harmed other people
He forced Leah Hayes head down into his lap
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Old 06-29-2019, 01:14 PM   #3083
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

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....so far I am aware of his allegations are about his ex´s which did accuse him for abuse, err, let me correct like the newspaper wrote additional: it was for emotional abuse like being a too clingy boyfriend and when relationships turn sour or a marriage fails and etc....
Besides as far I remember it was kindly mentioned in the newspaper even it was somewhere lost in the article, after the dramatic headline, that Ryan never was physically abusive to his ex´s or/and the underage girl who lied constantly about her age!
So just to be clear, you believe: if its not physical, its not abuse. got it.
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Old 06-29-2019, 01:17 PM   #3084
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

He grabbed a woman’s head, forced her towards his dick, and told her to blow him. Yeah, I consider that physical abuse. And no, abuse doesn’t always result in changes. In fact, it rarely does.

If you want to continue to support him, that’s your business, but your posts are so frequently off base that they read as little more than someone trying to wish this shit away.
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Old 06-29-2019, 01:21 PM   #3085
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

the smarmy belittling of the women and their accusations is also too much.
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Old 06-29-2019, 01:24 PM   #3086
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

BuT hE's NeVeR bEeN cHaRgEd In SoMe WaY oR aNoThEr


I wonder why women are afraid to come forward about some men's shitty behavior. Its like they won't be believed or will be marginalized or something.
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Old 06-29-2019, 01:54 PM   #3087
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

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I also think so much of Ryan’s lyrical content is driven his by relationships. It’s caused me to look at a lot of songs from a different perspective after these accusations. When you think that many songs were written from the POV of someone who emotionally manipulates, they can take on a different tone.
Agree, it so hard to read the lyrics for ‘Hard Way To Fall’ or ‘Harder Now It’s Over’ without getting the creeps for example. It just don’t buy his romantic ‘let’s start a sweetheart revolution’ act anymore.

The last years I was in it for the ‘finding peace’ songs like, ‘Easy Plateau’ or ‘Peaceful Valley’, but I can’t relate to his mental state in anyway anymore.
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Old 06-29-2019, 02:05 PM   #3088
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

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He forced Leah Hayes head down into his lap
She´s the illustrator of the Cardinology vinyl artwork, right?

Wow, did this happen before she finished the artwork or afterwards?
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Old 06-29-2019, 02:06 PM   #3089
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

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Originally Posted by Tim Simmons View Post
BuT hE's NeVeR bEeN cHaRgEd In SoMe WaY oR aNoThEr


I wonder why women are afraid to come forward about some men's shitty behavior. Its like they won't be believed or will be marginalized or something.


“Hey NYT, where’s the follow up story if all this was true?!$? “

“So then you agree the ONLY thing he’s at fault for is texting a minor?! Mandy and Phoebe are just doing this to further their careers!!!”

#thesomanyofus




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Old 06-29-2019, 02:44 PM   #3090
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

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She´s the illustrator of the Cardinology vinyl artwork, right?

Wow, did this happen before she finished the artwork or afterwards?
I don’t think she gave the timeline, but I’m assuming it was in the lead up to it, because he was interacting with her during recording on his blog. After the album came out he never mentioned her much.
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Old 06-29-2019, 02:52 PM   #3091
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

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PS: yes, I still find the NYT story quite edgy and where´s the follow up story?

I mean if this is all true what they wrote. Ofc the NYT is the only newspaper we people can rely on.

So you’re trusting the other credible publications who came forward with Ryan’s defense? (there were none)

Never mind, Ryan’s threatening reaction (since deleted) then cowardly response, or lack-thereof was more reliable.

No wait, it must have been the support (no corroboration or further sharing of like events whatsoever) expressed by multiple other partners, friends and colleagues, that really cemented how this was just fakenews / cancel culture.



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Old 06-29-2019, 03:44 PM   #3092
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

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So just to be clear, you believe: if its not physical, its not abuse. got it.
hm, I didn´t said that!
Just as a reminder: I asked about the physical abuse someone mentioned here before.

Just to be clear, in my opinion the newspaper article used the word 'abuse' to get attention from the general public because it sounds more sensational and shocking.
And people tend in first line to think of physical abuse when they hear or read a story with the headline abuse.
And as physical abuse can be quite life threatening, so it´s more attention-seeking then emotional abuse.

I find there´s clearly a difference between physical abuse and emotional abuse.
Besides I don´t like it when I read a 'serious' media trying to catch people attention with an edgy headline and an edgy story.

Sure there are cases where emotional abuse is almost equally cruel and dangerous as physical abuse but referred to the NYT article and the #metoo topic and Ryan´s ex´s, in this case I don´t think that it´s comparable!

Besides the #metoo movement was in first line for women who got physical abused and in that article the ex´s complained about failed romantic relationships and their emotional abuse is explained with examples like: he texted them too much or didn´t kept his promises.

I guess if a detective or psychologist would dig deeper into every story there can be found some emotional abuse on both sides.
Probably emotional abuse starts already with a hungry, crying baby to alert the mother to feed the baby but I´m not a psychologist.
This topic is quite deep to smash it into a newspaper article like this.
Besides I find it very odd that the NYT article choses to circle mostly around an ex-wife who recently re-married new and is in the showbiz-industry but happily talks most about her previous years-ago, failed marriage!

Anyway back to abuse:

For people who experienced another level of emotional and/or physical abuse those allegations in that particular article are like a bad joke.
Special as money and fame and the showbiz-industry is involved in all parties. So, I tend to read those articles more sceptical.

Sure claiming emotional abuse with saying you aren´t a real musician for not playing any instrument isn´t the most humble compliment one can get from a romantic partner or not keeping promises but I guess that´s when people split, learn from their experiences and move on.
Nobody was forced to do anything according the newspaper article and still those ex´s managed to get an article that they were abused.
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Old 06-29-2019, 03:46 PM   #3093
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

Bad. Really bad.
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Old 06-29-2019, 03:47 PM   #3094
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

I don´t get it if you all dislike Ryan and his music so much why you still keep posting on this forum?
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Old 06-29-2019, 03:49 PM   #3095
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

I don’t get why you liking his music means you have to defend his terrible behavior.
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Old 06-29-2019, 04:03 PM   #3096
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

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So you’re trusting the other credible publications who came forward with Ryan’s defense? (there were none)

Never mind, Ryan’s threatening reaction (since deleted) then cowardly response, or lack-thereof was more reliable.

No wait, it must have been the support (no corroboration or further sharing of like events whatsoever) expressed by multiple other partners, friends and colleagues, that really cemented how this was just fakenews / cancel culture.



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I trust my own gut feeling and my opinion!

I read the article, I listened the podcast, I watched the youtube interview with the one NYT journalist and in that interview he clearly used in first line the word abuse to create more drama and triggering the subconscious-mind.
Besides he didn´t convince me to believe him when he kept bringing the theme back, that Mandy had to face the argument she isn´t a musician as she doesn´t play an instrument.
Sorry, but this is a not very logical argument for emotional and/or physical abused people!

If the article were that he isn´t that romantic lonely man/hero he uses to sing about but Ryan might be instead of a sort of a womanizer or tries to be one I think I never counted his ex´s...even he has this song 'Firecracker'...idk that would be more realistic?
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Old 06-29-2019, 04:10 PM   #3097
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

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hm, I didn't say that!
Just as a reminder: I asked about the physical abuse someone mentioned here before.
fair enough. IDK if english is your first language or not, but I see you're not American, so I apologize if I have a misunderstanding of a point you are making.

Quote:
Just to be clear, in my opinion the newspaper article used the word 'abuse' to get attention from the general public because it sounds more sensational and shocking.
No they used it because its abuse. Sure its not physical abuse, but its still abuse.

Quote:
And people tend in first line to think of physical abuse when they hear or read a story with the headline abuse.
And as physical abuse can be quite life threatening, so it´s more attention-seeking then emotional abuse.
I would assume if they are reading the article, they would clearly see it wasn't physical abuse. Hence the clarification that he never physically abused them, so that people didn't construe physical assaults.

Quote:
I find there´s clearly a difference between physical abuse and emotional abuse.
Besides I don´t like it when I read a 'serious' media trying to catch people attention with an edgy headline and an edgy story.

Sure there are cases where emotional abuse is almost equally cruel and dangerous as physical abuse but referred to the NYT article and the #metoo topic and Ryan´s ex´s, in this case I don´t think that it´s comparable!
I disagree. Neither should be accepted and if conflating the two creates a stigma that emotional abuse is the same as physical, so be it. Both should be done away with.

Quote:
Besides the #metoo movement was in first line for women who got physical abused and in that article the ex´s complained about failed romantic relationships and their emotional abuse is explained with examples like: he texted them too much or didn´t kept his promises.
MeToo was a catchall for all toxic behavior exhibted by men. Physical abuse. Emotional abuse. Lording power and authority over women who were employed or lacking agency in regards to these men with more power.

Quote:
I guess if a detective or psychologist would dig deeper into every story there can be found some emotional abuse on both sides.
It's entirely possible, but you can't assume that with every case. Its a detriment to the victim/accuser.
Quote:
Probably emotional abuse starts already with a hungry, crying baby to alert the mother to feed the baby but I´m not a psychologist.


Quote:
This topic is quite deep to smash it into a newspaper article like this.
Besides I find it very odd that the NYT article choses to circle mostly around an ex-wife who recently re-married new and is in the showbiz-industry but happily talks most about her previous years-ago, failed marriage!
She has every right to speak her mind whenever she chooses. Especially since its shown to be part of a pattern for Ryan. She spoke up with several women, validating each others experiences (and more came out after the article). It focused the most on her because she had the longest and most serious relationship with him.

Quote:
Anyway back to abuse:

For people who experienced another level of emotional and/or physical abuse those allegations in that particular article are like a bad joke.
Special as money and fame and the showbiz-industry is involved in all parties. So, I tend to read those articles more sceptical.

Sure claiming emotional abuse with saying you aren't a real musician for not playing any instrument isn´t the most humble compliment one can get from a romantic partner or not keeping promises but I guess that's when people split, learn from their experiences and move on.
Nobody was forced to do anything according the newspaper article and still those ex´s managed to get an article that they were abused.
The biggest take away from MeToo is that there are power imbalances in life and professional and personal relationships. Taking advantage (to whatever degree) of that power imbalance without care or concern for the other person is the wrong behavior.

So fine, you're one of the people that things "this is just normal bad relationship stuff and not ABUSE" Fine. I wholly disagree, but you cannot deny its still shitty awful behavior.

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Old 06-30-2019, 07:35 PM   #3098
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

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IDK if english is your first language or not, but I see you're not American
wow. this is america.
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Old 07-01-2019, 07:37 AM   #3099
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

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You've been given plenty of opportunity to state your opinions and made yourself pretty clear. Your most recent posts are just passive aggressive snark directed at individual members. Time to move on perhaps.
Boo hoo someone disagrees with you.
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Old 07-01-2019, 10:44 AM   #3100
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Re: Ryan Adams, abuse, and the Stans that love them.

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I don’t get why you liking his music means you have to defend his terrible behavior.
lol
this is perfect. i'm baffled at the apologists' conveniently pushing aside ryan's antics and sticking to the "but, i love his music" theme.

i love his music too...loved his music.

sucks it has that cheapened-push-a-head-down-to-the-crotch-ask-for-a-bj-sexting-a-15-year-old-feel to it now.

actually, really fucking sucks. every 4th of july i relive this memory of cranking up the song Halloween and sharing that song the first time w/ my bro...we had to play it nonstop on the backroads between our cabin and this tiny town we'd go into for fireworks...since he's passed i've played that song on that backroad as a little nod to the Gods for him and for me.

i keep trying to play his music...doesn't have the same effect for me now....
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